Acontecimento changes came out because that's part of the removal of the model range from production. Everything that's getting previewed now is purely part of the new book, so isn't going to turn up in Army until the book comes out.
Why? We can now field super powerful and new Kornak and 4 Suryat links..... I really don't understand how someone can make Hospitallers cheaper, which have better link options and stats then MAF HI, but thinks that Suryats profiles are ok. Unless Raktorak has new and useful profiles like KHD, sensor, other types of specialists then it really looks grim for MAF atm. They also just gave MO Dart which is super powerful camo/HI/TAG hunter. Whish MAF had at least some marker state options...
I kinda disagree and I don't. Marker states are quite unfluffy for the Morats, They are a proud warrior race, they would never stoop to dastardly sneaky tricks of lesser species. However, actual game meta means that marker states and sneaky tricks absolutely rule the roost so it's an uphill battle if you don't have them or the right tools to counter them...
They are currently zeros without the marker state which makes them useful/survivable, and 20-25% more expensive and with pretty much no support in the form of other infiltrators or shell game. And as a unit that should pretty much always be spending it's order for mines, objectives or general f***ery Morat is more hindrance than help.
Ooooor, if we are so fluffy, make our dudes actually hit like a sledgehammer. I would gladly play without cheap LI, markers and abundance of speciallists if the hard hitters had any presence on the table. Currently, the whole sectorial is a joke and unless there is more to the new book than was revealed, I will give up on it entirely. Especially considering the awesome rework MO got. GOTTA SELL THE NEW 300pts BOX, RIGHT CB? I hate to rage / rant about little toy soldiers, but this just seems like a kick in the balls.
For me, it doesn't feel much like a kick in the balls, more like you finally get to go to a restaurant that your friend's been going on about, and when you get there, it' average, like, it's not bad, the food is ok, but it's not living up to what your friend said it was...
Why? Even at Burst 3, with BS11 and no modififiers whatsoever the autocannon is a speed bump at best and a liability at worse. Why not a fully linked Vanguard Missile Launcher? Actually, I think this won't happen. I really think the Haris options for Kornak will be Kornak+2 Suryats or Kornak+2 Sogarats, then you can add in a raktorak as wildcard. That alone will be good enough for me, as it allows for some nice combinations and will have me using the Feuerbach Sog a lot more. I respectfully disagree with this. I get this repeatedly hammered to my head that MAF is bad and I should feel bad for playing them, yet just this weekend I managed to beat a 20 orders Haqqislam army that had about 8 Camo tokens on the table. It was not easy and really was not fun (I hate playing against 20 order lists), but it was doable. The problem I see at least here in the forums is that people often say that the only way to play is spamming models and camo markers, and I often get the feeling these people will complain whenever an army comes out that isn't able to do that same thing. There are other ways of playing, and there are other solutions than just "spam stuff". Consider the following: Morat Aggression Force ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 3 YAOGAT Spitfire / Pistol, CCW. (1.5 | 32) YAOGAT (Fireteam: Haris) Combi Rifle + Panzerfaust / Pistol, CCW. (0.5 | 30) RAKTORAK Combi Rifle + Heavy Flamethrower / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 23) 2 SWC | 85 Points Open in Infinity Army It's not very expensive, has a specialist, has template weapons and a big gun to fight it out on the active turn. Oh, and it has visors to deal with smoke AND camo. With just what we have now, it's very easy to go past 10 orders, something like this: Morat Aggression Force ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 1 6 4 5 MED-TECH OBSIDON MEDCHANOID Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 23) SLAVE DRONE Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) SLAVE DRONE Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) RAKTORAK Combi Rifle + Heavy Flamethrower / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 23) YAOGAT (Fireteam: Haris) Combi Rifle + Panzerfaust / Pistol, CCW. (0.5 | 30) YAOGAT Spitfire / Pistol, CCW. (1.5 | 32) Q-DRONE HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 26) OZNAT Vulkan Shotgun, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 20) PRETA Chain Rifle / AP CCW. (0 | 7) GAKI AP CCW. (0 | 4) GAKI AP CCW. (0 | 4) GAKI AP CCW. (0 | 4) GROUP 2 5 2 SURYAT Lieutenant HMG + TinBot A (Deflector L1) / Pistol, CCW. (2 | 45) ZERAT Hacker (EI Assault Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 25) MORAT Hacker (EI Hacking Device) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 22) KRAKOT RENEGADE 2 Chain Rifles, Grenades / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 14) KRAKOT RENEGADE 2 Chain Rifles, Grenades / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 14) 6 SWC | 299 Points Open in Infinity Army That list can be improved on a lot, but it is something I would use on a few ITS missions without doubt. And that's just using the new Forward Deployment for MI and the ability of the Raktorak to link with anyone. These are some good stuff, guys, let's try to focus on using the tools we have well and not complaining about the tools we don't have. While I am not 100% satisfied with the changes, I do like what has been shown so far, and I do think people are getting angry for no reason. We haven't seen the full picture yet, guys. Let's be positive, and if we can't be positive, let's at least wait until the full picture is shown so we can criticize with quality.
^This. I agree with the rest too but that last paragraph is spot on. Also a raktorak is good in pretty much every link, even the Rodok one where he adds a B4 weapon you can fire confidently at 15-17" (one of the reasons I've always thought Rodoks were better in Onyx) and while he's not a Samaritan he's also about half the cost and adds weapons that the team doesn't already have (such as delicious fire). Just being able to drop some casual BS 12 specialist in a vanguard link is good and I'll be interested to see if he can join the gaki team. As for the point on the Kurgat autocannon: Because its cool. The amount of times that model has failed me in spectacular fashion as it is entirely sub optimal, and yet I still want to take it anyway even though I have a 5 man link rodok ML and no SWC
I really don't know how can you get amazed by Raktorak being a wildcard as a solution to a grim situation in the specialist area of this sectorial. Of course, we don't know what they will change and how much but when you compare the latest video about PanO to a lazyass done 6min for CA, it does not look very promising. A single win against some random Spamqislam does not prove anything. Everything would be ok if Infinity was a game targeted to narrative players but it is known for its competitive and tournament approach. I really cannot agree that Morats are in fine place when talking about the competitive environment in the current metagame. Lack of marker state specialist is a big problem for many ITS missions. Costly links of HI that does not have amazing firepower really looks poor even when compared to more efficient MO list, not even talking about camo-spams or just many orders lists. And you cannot expect player base to not be disappointed when Morats are arguably one of the weakest army in INFINITY (maybe only above the Druze). This sectorial is really dull, without any tricks. Only good thing is Yaogat harris (which is very costly for 3 one wound models) and decent warbands. On the other side, you can find overpriced HI links, overpriced poor line infantry, no marker state hackers and really outclassed by everyone skirmishers. I hope CB will give us something else then great looking miniatures as a reason to play Morats.
I didn't say it proved anything, but I did say beating these kind of lists with MAF is doable. However, there's one point I vehemently disagree, and it's this: Having a competitive scenario doesn't make the game targeted solely at competitive players. I don't think CB would shun the 30% or so of the fanbase that plays for narrative reasons. I honestly think that ITS 9 and ITS 10 (Barring the Xenotech thing that was kinda counterintuitive at best) are making the game a lot more balanced overall, and despite the wisdom of the forums, I do believe there are other ways of winning that aren't just using camoed specialists to cap objectives. However, my prior point stands: let's at least wait until the update drops on november before we say it's bad.
Thanks @DaRedOne - I appreciate your level headed approach to this. My only complaint, such as it is, is that I don't really like the restrictions that come with the Oznat/Hungries team, and don't find them to be a reliable way to meaningfully put orders on the table. I rarely play with them, and when I do, they're in a group by themselves to be a disposable harassment screen, rather than being my army's main source of orders. It's pretty much the same complaint as "wasting" your core fireteam in ISS keeping your kuang shi linked up and in your dz.
Ok, the game should not be aimed only for a competitive part of the community - that would be unhealthy. However, any balance changes should at least give different armies tools and playstyles that have more or less same effectiveness in a competitive environment. Playing Morats atm feels like putting an extra handicap on yourself, just to experience some more challenge, compared to other armies. I wish I had so much patience as You, guess I need to stop thinking about upcoming Morats and just playtest new Acon toys for next month until the release of the book.
Marker state is arguably the strongest rule in the game, both in offense and defense . I agree that the absence of marker state in MAF is deliberate and immutable. Morats are not, in my opinion, adequately compensated for the lack of marker state. I believe that if Morats are designed to have no camo at all, then they at least should be very effective at dealing with camo. I don't believe they are. They're hunters. They need more sensors, more sniffers. Yaogats are a boon, for sure, but expensive, slow visor troops are not a great tool for moving around the table discovering lurking camo markers. Morats have no access to the minelayer skill, no peripheral weapons, no g:synch (barring bit and kiss, if they stay) and so are very, very vulnerable to alpha strikes and enemy board control. Instead they have defensive link teams, but no cheap ones. A q drone, which is great. And a meat shield of hungries with an oznat tax. The lack of marker state and board control options at deployment conspire to make Morat competitiveness an uphill battle, one that can be an enjoyable challenge, but for me at least, it begins to feel exhausting. The little tweaks that Morats have been getting are wholly positive and I appreciate them. The Raicho in particular. The Raktorak wildcard is just amazing. But please, please CB, give Morats more sensors, or crazy koalas, or g:synch beasts, something to address at least one of the two big challenges, camo and board control. Thank you for attending my TED talk.
Yawn at all this "Morats are incapable of stealth" bs. They're a race of warriors and *hunters*. Hunters. Can't hunt stuff without some degree of stealth. Furthermore, IIRC - "Zerat" literally translates as "one who kills silently".
Hmm, looks like I didn't save one of the previous 'MAF vs Camo' discussions, so I'll have to write it all out again. MAF have: Daturazi with Chain Rifles. This means Discover and Intuitive Attack for two chances to reveal a given Camo marker if you've decided that it's hiding something important. Plus moving into sight with an Impetuous Order and daring them to reveal in ARO to try and beat PH17 Smoke Grenades, followed by MA4 inside a Smoke cloud. Not to forget actual Grenades, so if there's a Camo marker with a revealed enemy trooper within 5" of it, Speculative Fire on modified PH11 can catch the Camo marker as well. The Chain Rifle (and potentially the BSG) can also be used to punish any Camo markers that are close to a revealed target. Gakis. Hands-down, the most points-efficient anti-Camo and anti-board control unit in the entire game. As above, deploy them to run into sight of enemy Camo during their Impetuous Order and dare the opponent to reveal, for the sake of a 4pt target. If they don't, then 6-6 MOV gets the Gaki an entire foot up the table. If there's a Mine in range, you can still choose to Dodge on decent odds, or just Move again to clear out other potential Mines or Perimeter Items. If you're really lucky, an opponent will actually make the mistake of shooting a Gaki in ARO, in which case you can move 6" up to any nearby Camo markers, and catch them in the Explosion if the Gaki goes Unconscious. Climbing Plus means that it's not even possible to hide Camo markers Prone on rooftops. Pretas are not quite as good for their price against Camo in the active turn, due to the indiscriminate Effects of Explode compared to a Chain Rifle. But they're still pretty darn good, and are cheap disposable troopers for Deployment Zone defence against Camo, either for suicide-Discovers or for Chain Rifles that don't care about visual MODs, and have Dogged so that they sometimes get to do it twice in ARO. Also, not to forget that both types of Hungry ARO Dodge/Engage 3" on PH14, so are pretty good at Engaging into an enemy attacker that's depending on visual MODs, and CC19 is enough to make most non-CC specialists struggle to get out of combat. For added fun, combine Impetuous Daturazi and Gakis, so that the Gakis move impetuously behind Smoke, then use their Irregular Orders in the mid-field without having been shot at yet. Krakot Renegades. Similar tactics to the Daturazi, but MetaChemistry L2 can give them some extra protection against Mines etc. A minor shout-out to the Zerat FO/BSG/Grenades/Mines option for starting up the table and then applying several of the template shenanigans already mentioned. Ikadrons. Cheap, fast and two Light Flamethrowers. Not much more needs to be said. Mines. MAF has Mines out the wazoo. On Zerats, on Rodoks (plus all the Shotguns), on Kurgats, on Raichos at range (with a nearby Ikadron for close support and reloads). If you can pull it off, Yaogats doing ARO Discovers through a Daturazi's Smoke template is hilarious, as it's not a BS Attack so doesn't reveal the Yaogat through the smoke. That's all stuff that's often in a MAF list anyway, without even bothering with the 'hard' counters for Camo.
I appreciate the effort IJW, but I've seen all that before and I'm getting a little tired of... nope. Gonna stop myself. I can't really understand the dismissal of my argument here. I feel like any objective perspective of MAF's capabilities would show them to be soft in the areas I mentioned. Guess I'm wrong. I play quite a few factions and in my opinion MAF is undoubtedly the softest. MAF has mines out the wazoo but you can't drop them on camo markers without rolling and a long skill. Template weapons, if you're intuitive attacking you're already spending too many orders and wont be able to get the mission done in the face of an avalanche of... nope. Ok. I'm going to stop myself again. All those solutions you've mentioned are things I've tried, things I've occasionally had success with, but in general they require you to go first. With MAF you really need to go first or all those options are much more difficult to pull off. If I bring Morats to a tourney I have to build one list for all missions and one list just for Ariadna. And you're likely to see Ariadna on the top tables, in my experience. With other factions I can build two lists for missions with sufficient anti-camo properties built in. It's hard mode compared to how Yu Jing, Tohaa or Pano can handle the situation. I mention those factions because I have practical experience with them. I admit that my order discipline in handling camo could use improvement. That's irrespective of faction. But it's an order of magnitude more difficult with MAF. For me. And probably quite a few other people. I stand by my assertion that absent any camo of their own, and without minelayers to slow down the enemy's infiltrators, Morats could use a better way to combat it. Not need. Could really use.
