It doesn't matter what the four idiots do, only that they give full bonuses to the sniper and that they are cheap. Anything else is gravy. They took this out of the game for a reason, and I have not seen a convincing argument to bring it back. These things distort the game substantially and returning them is a decision that would need to be thought through a lot - not just because 'this particular link isn't good enough'. I think if you want to change the Spetskorp, you need to find a different way.
> Give us back our dirt-cheap BS 19 Sniper ARO No. Part of the point of the latest update was removing those options from the game. One of the weaknesses of Nomads is supposed to be their shooting game, and the Grenzer being one of the best ARO pieces in the entire game while being cheap to include went directly against that weakness. It's still going to be rolling 2 dice looking for 17's in a Mixed Core, so it's STILL one of the best ARO pieces in the game, and a lot of attack pieces ate that same -2 BS nerf. Due to how rolling 2 dice vs. 4 or 5 dice works, he got slightly *better* against Mixed Core attack pieces (though obviously worse against anything else). Focus instead on how Solo/Haris attack pieces just got a lot better due to most hard-ARO pieces losing 2 BS; things like the Szally or Kriza are now that much scarier in the Active Turn. The Securitate Feuerbach is now also a pretty legit option in both phases if you keep the link Pure, as BS 15 is roughly around where most Mixed Cores top out.
I don't know how this turned into a sniper link debate. If you think cheap apex sniper links are gone, you will be disappointed. They still exist across all factions. you can still wildcard a grenzer into a 4 man securitate and have BS 18 sniper. Its not a big change and its better than doing this than with cheerkillers because securitates are a better profile than cheerkillers because they are flexible. My point in starting this thread was to address the poor design of the fireteam composition as a whole. Honestly, the only thing that makes sense in mixing Grenzers and Cheerkillers is something like Grenzer NCO, Cheerkiller MSV2, and 2x Cheerkillers, perhaps even the Red Fury Grenzer(which you would have to proxy because no release). Ultimately, it may even be better to just go 5 Cheerkillers, but you would need to buy two boxes of cheerkillers.
having looked through various fireteam charts, the Spetskorp fireteam is really 2 fireteam (Cheerkiller and Grenzer) that share the same name. QK have what they call the "QK Fireteams" where they didn't bother making up a cool name unlike the "TJC Fireteams". Just like in TJC, there is only two units and no extras, it really is 2 fireteam in the end : Odalisque, Sekban. Kosmoflot has the same, a "Kosmoflot" fireteam with two units that are "Min * / Max 5" : Scot Guard and Frontovik. The way they are setup is that fireteam that has special mix are set up individually with that unit being Min 1 (Securitate, Hollow Men, Rokot) and the "may join" units has Min 0 in that fireteam. Then any left over units that can link, but doesn't require allowing any special options are all put together in a "sectorial name" Fireteam. My point is, i don't really see it as an "and/or", i see it more like a straight "or", although in practice it does open up options because of that "and". It is like units left alone are being compensated by allowing to be matched with other loners. While units that have diversity (securitate/HM) can't mix with the loners nor with each other. It can make a strange mix (like Fiddler "Count As" Cheerkiller can join Grenzer). And so I agree with your assessment it was poorly designed.
Composition Bonuses only apply if the entire Fireteam is the same unit; you don't get incremental Bonuses for having a "mostly" same unit fireteam. A Fireteam of 3 Securitates + 2 Wildcards doesn't get +3 WIP to Discover, for example; the Coherency bonuses are all-or-nothing.
Yeah, you only get coherent bonuses if the entire Fireteam is "Pure", adding even one mixed trooper causes the Fireteam to lose all Pure bonuses.
Because that's what people saw Grenzers being used for. A cheap turret that most lists struggled against, often even when they prepared for it. Ditto Bolt and Kamau snipers. Most other snipers don't get those numbers due to missing that extra ability and Nisse were expensive to do so with.
Kamau are inaffected too, because you can get for at the very least 113 pts . But considering i misread the composition bonus rules, that pretty much makes spetskorp core link for cheerkilkers only. Grenzers are now overcosted by at least 3 pts. in my estimation. There isn't really a reason to take them outside of the securitate link, because i agree that is still strong. In the context of TJC, there are just better options.
106 points, but that's still a significant 34 point increase over the previous 72 points, that's not unaffected.
Considering how much harder they made it for other sectorials to get +3 BS on their heavy pointman, I think this is jumping to conclusions. Maybe give it a spin and see how it works against other factions? Sure a full bonus Grenzer sniper got up to 60 points more expensive, but a full bonus Orc HMG got up to 80 points more expensive, Shang-Jisus up to 60, Vet Kazak up to 60, and Asawira can't even get it, so most options that can shoot the Grenzer at something approaching decent odds also got hit by this change and not seldom hit harder. (P.s. no, Grenzers aren't artificially over priced. ARM just get really expensive when compared to the PanO counterparts) Cheap enough. Machinist and Buletteer, remember? 104 points isn't much, though people likely stuck a HI and a paramedic in there for even more flexibility.
But they are over-costed when you can make a better pure Core Hollow men team only costing 5 more points, which will have more durability. Pure Core Securitate teams are just better since they got a MSR profile now too. When you talk about Haris, maybe there is room there, but at that point, you are probably using the Grenzer Wildcards, not the Sketskorp team. Maybe something like this: ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 9 (Nayemik Link via Perseus) GRENZER (Forward Observer, Sensor, NCO) Combi Rifle, Light Flamethrower(+1B), Flash Pulse / Pistol, Breaker Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 29) GRENZER Red Fury / Pistol, Breaker Pistol, CC Weapon. (1 | 30) PERSEUS FTO-2 (Super-Jump) Breaker Combi Rifle(+1 Dam), Nanopulser, Smoke Grenades / Heavy Pistol(+1B), DA CC Weapon. (0 | 33) (Securitate Link) SECURITATE (Paramedic) Combi Rifle ( | MediKit) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 15) SECURITATE Heavy Machine Gun / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1 | 21) SECURITATE MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 20) SECURITATE Combi Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 13) SECURITATE (Repeater) Boarding Shotgun ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 16) JELENA KOVAČ Breaker Combi Rifle, Chain-colt / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 20) 3.5 SWC | 197 Points Open in Infinity Army
Better how? I realise this is the Nomads forum and I only play Nomads when I feel I need to broaden my horizon or fact check myself, but what is it you are trying to get out of the link? Can the Grenzers face check mines and in general take a beating and be easy to get back up again? Not well, they're not meant to, either. But, can the Hollowmen shoot through smoke, engage in flexible long range firefighting or easily bypass a repeater net? No, but Grenzers can. Those abilities are not equal under the sun and only you can decide which is better for your list and playstyle and whether the pure bonuses are necessary enough to fork out on. I share your opinion that the Hollowmen link is better for general list composition, but since I consider IA to be my main faction I also naturally build lists that gravitate towards a heavy infantry push that uses the extra wounds as a resource that is there to be spent. Even so I'd explore the option of what a non-pure Cheer+Grenzer team can do for my list, just like I'm forced to if I play IA and Haidao next (if I play IA at all before the next fireteam overhaul) since Haidao are now non-tagged wildcards.
True, though I personally never picked these two options for my bolt fireteams, but when I said on the cheap I mean the 1 model in the cheap line infantry core, An orc or Kamau in a fusilier core, a Grenzel in Securitate core these types of cheap core teams, bolts could not join such an optimized fireteam.
