The smart missile launcher: this unknown

I tend to struggle to make it work, on account of typically considering just shooting them to be more order efficient.

That said, I have been told of the wonders of giving FO REMs Marksmanship L2, therefore allowing them to ignore the cover penalty to hit, and Make FO attacks at 24" hitting on WIP 13, thus making targeting enemy troops relatively order efficient, before tagging them with a Missile at BS 18 (typically). Trouble is, against most targets I'd prefer to just shoot the original target with a gun, unless I'm doing it to bypass a seriously scary ARO or serious penalties to hit. But in that case... Targeting them will be considerably harder.

And given that the Smart Missile Launcher is 1.5 SWC, it's certainly an investment you want to recoup some value from other than it just being an ARO bot.

 

I don't believe a Smart Missile Launcher can be used in
ARO because it lacks the ARO attribute. (Sorry to have not provided a reference; I'm struggling to find the right section)

@Fangoman My experience of being on the receiving end of a Yu Jing Smart Missile Launcher was that it quite ruined my day. I think I lost a Father Knight Hacker in a Fireteam Duo, so it completely derailed my game.

I was still traumatized in the following game,so I threw Orders at destroying it before my opponent could get it working, so I'd say yes, it was pretty effective. I guess with the high SWC you'd need to build around it., but I think the points are quite low. I guess proxy one in and play a couple of games?

 

I've only had a guided missile work for my Ariadna once. I've given up on the tactic because of how many orders it needs to be successful. I've seen a few times when it would have wreck my opponent but of course they only moved that way because either I didn't bring one or they already got rid of the FO that would spot for them.

@Wolf looks like Smart Missile launchers have an auto-aim mode as well as the guided (which can only be used in Active Turn) so if they cannot ARO it would be from the mounts rules not the weapon: http://wiki.infinitythegame.com/en/Missile_Launcher_(ML)#Smart_Missile_Launcher_.28smart_ML.29

 

On paper the idea of a SML seams great. having the ability to kill free of retaliation is very powerful.
Back when I started infinity I was doing a Tagline tournament and one of my lists had a lot of FO's and I had some free SWC so I thought I would try it.

The best I got was after I spotlighted an enemy TAG, then pushed past his ECM and Uturn's, and then broke his armor I had spent almost a full turn to only put his tag into unconscious. He had his TAG back up on his very first order when his turn started.

My eye still drifts to them now and then, Maybe with Satlock or something I tell myself but at the end of the day I just don't think they are worth it from a competitive standpoint.

 

SMLs are good, generally you need them in a list that has a higher number of orders and a better WIP for FO or spotlighting targets, which means they tend to show up in Nomads, Haqq or Ariadna (Katyusha is better than an SML though to be fair) more than they would in say PanO or Aleph.

However they are still fantastic weapons and even when used merely for long range direct fire without the use of the guided trait they are nasty, AP+DA ammo that removes the opponents cover is in some ways far nastier than even an ML which has to choose between cover stripping or the AP mode.

Ultimately its down to how you build your list and the SMLs role in that list, but they are legit weapons platforms none the less.

And just for clarrity sake, yes you can fire them in ARO using the non-guieded mode.

 

Sure thing, I just meant they couldn't use Guided in the reactive turn, since (I thought) that was the context of the exchange.
But full marks and an upvote for the rules quote; not enough of that in these forums!

 

The only way i found to use the smart missile launcher as a valid plan is to build a list with the combo sat-lock + EVO hacker + some good sniffer. I should say that, in this tactic, the strongest faction is Yu Jing just for one guy: mineslayer Kanren with sniffers.

The combo is expensive ( 18+16+25 and 2 SWC) but against heavy camo list is gold. If you go first keep your kanren as last minature to deploy and put the sniffer close to their camos, and star satlocking. At least you will discover them ( if they reset they discover), and if you succed in satlock roll you can star shoting missiles. In the same way if i see a concentration of miniatures in his deploy zone could be wort to run with the kanren and deploy a second sniffer ( but then you eat orders like cookies). All other factions can do the same via 8 points remotes and being them a very usefull cheerleader i always play it just in case. Apart the combo need and EVO, that later is usfull helping with AD troops or buffing remotes ( including the missile launcher one if you are confident to use it as ARO).

Via forward observer i never targeted an enemy, beacuse as someone said, 90% times if you can try to target you can shot with a normal weapon.

I've done it with spotligh using a coordinated order ( having the EVO hacker) and forcing the oponent to decide if do reset, or face a direct shot. ( Was Guilang hacker with program + Su Jian shoting at the same time). Also spotlight, if you have the misdile launcher, is fun to break hard supression fires.

Sorry for the long post x)

 

Whoever said that has never actually run the numbers through the calc.

 

Or they've never played a faction with more infiltrating FOs with good WIP than half-decent shooters with guns that matter :P

Now, that's an exaggeration, but there are many cases (including considerations of both lists composition) in which the statement above is actually more or less true.

 

In those situations sure. But it wasnt presented as a constrained comment

So as a geberal statement about the game i maintain thag it is in correct

 

Well, yes. I'd say that depending on faction people play, that can be a norm for them though.

 

I've been getting good value out of it in a Bakunin list. I've only gone 'guided-lite' so basically it's there as an option, not a main tactic. The the only concession to filling it in is swapping a Dep Rep EMauler Zero for a FO Zero (to provide another targetting option); which is a reasonable trade as it gives me 2 x Sk specialists.

Even if you don't use it for guided at all in the match, the Vertigo is a great DZ / table edge guard to stop pesky AD if you can hide it in either DZ corner. In particular it's an effect 'anti-VZ' tool if you can see the entire of the back edge of your DZ. It's also not a terrible ARO piece later in the game (as a T1 ARO it's a touch too vulnerable to be the 'main' ARO option, so it needs to be used carefully).

Primarily I use it for Guided with Pi-well (often using Triangulated Fire). This effectively turns Pi-well into an attack piece that can threaten anything in the game. On one memorable occasion I counter-deployed 2 Grunt snipers with Pi-well (as my reserve); first order of the game I Triangulated fire splitting burst vs both of them through a low-vis Sat-zone, got both Targeted and then deleted them with guided. This tactic is also effective with Satlock where it also gives a decent option for getting rid of camo'd troops deployed prone on a roof (a problem that I otherwise find Bakunin can struggle with if I'm not taking Bran, Chimera or a Lizard).

Meteor + EVO + Guided gives even the Kanren Minelayer a run for their money for effectiveness in lists with Guided as a list 'feature' (and it's significantly cheaper than trying to do the same thing with a Lizard).

 

that wasnt my grunts.....

 

I have had great use with SML in my lists. Granted if I use a SML the list is built around supporting it (EVO+Rafiq+Multiple Hackers). I usually coordinate Spotlight through a repeater droped by a Hunzakut or Barid Pitcher. A SML can be devastating to links or haris hiding behind walls or buildings, or hitting that nasty HI unit waiting to go on rampage.

 

To be honest, I still think Nomads do it better. Marksmanship level 2 on Pi-Well, means he can basically shoot anything across the map and have 2 rolls on 10's, while being nearly immune to retaliation, especially if you outrange the target and they are in cover + your ODD. Other good candidates are the Spektr Assault Hacker, with WIP 11 on Spotlight, while giving -3 MOD, if you surprise attack. Alternatively, Nomads are also very good at using the Guided trait, because they almost natively include units who can make use of spotlight. Morans can either FO or make use of their Repeaters, with the Interventor rolling 12's on Spotlight, saving precious Orders, if they make use of their Lt. Order. :)

 

Fred's. You know better than to let me have such an easy set up with Pi-well.

On topic though: I think the issue is people rely on it as a tactic rather than using it as an option. It's why I think this is partly why Katyusha is soo good at it: even if you don't need to Spec Fire / Guided is 2 orders and only 25pts/1SWC and can be dropped into a lot of lists without much hassle (the other part is because you can Spec Fire for optimal template placement).

Comparatively, Vertigo/Clippers are 18pts/1.5SWC + the Hacke, so there's more of tendency to think 'hmm I need to build around that'.

I think this is a mistake. The most effective Guided shots I've seen (from both sides of the table) were used to remove a specific problem efficiently with low risk rather than being used as a general attack option: so they were only used once or maybe twice in a game. And yes, I mean efficiently particularly vs AROs where there's a fair chance you achieve nothing or when you catch multiple troopers. Even if you can't catch multiple troopers, the hassle you cause your opponent by forcing them to account for this can be huge.

 

Its all cost and balance. If your going to take 4 orders and risk loss of a trooper, I would rather those 4 orders go into setting up the Spotlight, and Marking to hit with SML with little to no risk to my troops.

 

It was just an expression, don't know the exact probability. But for my expirience, i still think doing forward observer is more risk/order inefficient that shoting with your normal weapon. Maybe the exceptions are against heavy armour models like tags.

Never thought about using trianguled fire with forwrd observer. Nice idea i should try it.