I didn't want to look like a noncritical ORC apologist - I'm not. In fact, most of lists I made do not include them. But sometimes I add them and am suprised how they've performed, contrary to general opinion. But, I use them only in specific situations and these are: 1) Specific Missions - Hunting Party, because of their Veteran status, and also Biotechvore, where order efficiency is crucial. Also the killing missions do sometimes favor them a bit. 2) Limited Insertion - we play it lot here. If you're building list with just 10 models, 120 points/3 SWC cease to be such problem, and order efficiency is key to succeed. 3) Active lieutenant - Aconte doesn't have many options. Regulars are squishy, Bagh Mari are used in some for of link 99% of time (and are squishy as well), Rao is pretty obvious, Montesas are usually too exposed to enemy and they carry a big target sign already. ORCs are toughest of them, have 2 wounds and deploy back. Outside of these, it is hard to found a place for them where they are not obsolete to another (and sometimes even cheaper) unit. For example, boarding shotgun Akali is almost two times cheaper then the same loadout ORC, has only 1 point Ballistic Skill lower and you can drop him (almost) anywhere on the map instead of running across the whole field. But compared to other controversial units (Singh or Bolts, for example), you aren't paying for anything you'll not use. They are straightforward, devastating and durable. Their problem is that Acontecimento has units that are even more devastating and durable. You can field much more versatile Tikbalang for the exact same price as ORC Duo with HMG (and I'm definitely not mentioning NCA or generic PanO, where it is even more obvious).
Ok we are getting someplace. Orcs have been offered up as a aggressive LT and a good pick for Biotechvore. Let's zero in on that last one. What's a good SAA list look like with Orcs vs one with something else?
Shock Army of Acontecimento ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 1 10 ORC HMG / Pistol, Knife. (2 | 44) ORC (Fireteam: Haris) Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 36) ORC MULTI Rifle + 1 TinBot A (Deflector L1) / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 41) NAGA (Minelayer) Boarding Shotgun, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 27) REGULAR (Sapper) MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 22) REGULAR (Minelayer, Sensor) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 14) REGULAR (Minelayer, Sensor) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 14) REGULAR Paramedic (MediKit) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12) REGULAR Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10) REGULAR Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10) GROUP 2 5 NAGA Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 30) PATHFINDER DRONBOT Combi Rifle, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 16) FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) 6 SWC | 300 Points Open in Infinity Army It's more a general template... We haven't even specified a scenario lineup... But that's pretty typically how I structure my Combat Groups for Acon. That second REM-heavy Combat Group just rocks. Another option is just drop the Haris configuration, keep the HMG, and put that pile of extra points into other troops. Maybe squeeze in a Montessa, Peacemaker and a Doctor, though obviously that starts diluting the concept of making a list that uses ORCS...
Hmm I don't know what list I was expecting but it was not that one Barakiel lol. Maybe a few seconds to go in to those pics? Do you really value the Naga's so highly that you take two even with confused deployment? Yah the scenario lineup is probably going to effect your list. The goal here is to pick the best possible mission for Orc's and just build for that mission to get the most out of the Orcs. STill if you think it is important we could go ahead and pick two other missions. Another option is just drop the Haris configuration, keep the HMG, and put that pile of extra points into other troops. Maybe squeeze in a Montessa, Peacemaker and a Doctor, though obviously that starts diluting the concept of making a list that uses ORCS...[/QUOTE] I personally like the Bulleteer and Reg Hacker even if just for the lgl myself, but yah the point is to see if we can make the Orc the best option.
Yes. Confused Deployment isn't really a negative impact except for AD troops. And even if both Nagas fail and end up deploying normally, the Camo KHD and boarding shotgun are hugely valuable in Biotechvore. Most people think of the mission as getting out of the zones with as many bodies as they can. It's actually more about getting in to the Killbox, and bring troops that are effective inside the Killbox. Viewing the mission as fighting effectively inside a confined space really helps focus the listbuilding. For Biotechvore specifically, with that list not having to pull duty for any other mission, I'd drop one Minelayer and the Tinbot and give the Regulars a Spitfire. It'll come into play a lot in Turns 2 and 3. Realistically, you can get into the Killbox with the ORC Haris, at least 5 Regulars, and (because of the 6-6 and 6-4 on the REMs) the entire second Combat Group. Then you have some strong combat tools there, and the multiple Wounds and Swiss Army loadouts of the 3 separate ORCS really helps. The ORC HMG lets you close, the MULTI is versatile and can tackle anything, the shotgun can end games. The Regular Sniper lets you contest the enemy if they go first, plus Sensor and Minelayer for utility/defense, and the Spitfire drives nails. The second group adds another layer of Flash Pulse for defense, lets you quickly Sniff/Sensor or get the KHD somewhere important, and fuels that KHD as necessary.
Interesting, I would not have thought that. I am pretty risk adverse and almost never try to infiltrate past the centerline. Being forced to roll would have me reaching for an alternative almost automatically without really considering the reward here. BTW Thanks for letting us/me pick your brain and see your thoughts. I have only been playing a year myself and seeing how others think really helps. Any chance we can now get what you would consider the best list for Biotech that is not restrained by having to have a particular unit?
I think there are a few ways to handle Biotechvore, really depending on which heavy hitters you're personally drawn too and most comfortable with. I think Guarda are excellent here, because you know you will be engaging enemies at short range and their Eclipse Smoke can really help you get out of your DZ. Montessas and the Tikbalang are good too, with Montessas excelling at short range attack/defense and the Tik able to crack your opponent's scrambled Turn 2 defense while defending well with mines, suppressive fire and flamethrower. Expanding on the Confused Deployment discussion, note that if the Nagas fail their roll, you still have more freedom for placing them in this mission than if they failed a standard attempt to infiltrate across the table. And AD is more of a risk, sure, but since most of the enemy will be in the midfield by Turn 2, the reward of walking in/dropping on behind them is greater, and the penalty if you fail is not as severe.
Played a game of MICS (Modular Infinity Card System) tonight vs. Vanilla Nomads with the Shockists. I ran this, Shock Army of Acontecimento ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 1 10 REGULAR (Sapper) MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 22) REGULAR Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10) REGULAR Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10) REGULAR Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10) REGULAR Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10) NAGA Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 30) NAGA (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 28) BAGH-MARI HMG / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 26) GUARDA DE ASSALTO MULTI Rifle + Heavy Flamethrower, D-Charges + AUXBOT_2 / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 49) AUXBOT_2 Light Shotgun + Eclipse Light Grenade Launcher / Electric Pulse. (- | 6) BULLETEER Spitfire / Electric Pulse. (1 | 23) GROUP 2 5 SIERRA DRONBOT HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 25) FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) REGULAR Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10) TRAUMA-DOC Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14) PALBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) AKAL COMMANDO Combi Rifle / Pistol, E/M CCW. (0 | 22) 5 SWC | 300 Points Open in Infinity Army All in all it worked pretty well. GDA is a great flanker. I'm most impressed by the Regular Sapper/Sniper. Most opponents don't know how to deal with it...it's the only 5-linkable Sapper out there aside from Moblots, and nobody runs them. Double-dicing Warbands on 18s is amazing, but even shooting normal targets on 15s (+3 range, +3 5 link, -3 cover) is really choice, but dice aside, it's the ability to put the thing *anywhere* that is really critical. On relatively sparse tables, it opens up deployment options that would otherwise put you well out of cover.
This is one of the biggest benefits of the Regular Sniper. You can choose the best position for the link team and set up the sniper as you please instead of the other way around which is typical.
In fact, each time I play with Acontecimento, I usually field a 5-man fireteam of Regulars with two snipers and three 10-point cheerleaders, an EVO mulebot, and 3 fugazi remotes with Overclock from the Mulebot. This gives you 5 ARO pieces with mimetism, more than enough to stop any enemy on its tracks. This also gives you plenty of room for any other spearhead you want to include (either a Bagh Mari haris, a Tikbalang, a Montesa duo, and so on). The only drawback would be the lack of MSV2 troops (just one if you include Teucer, but so far I've been unlucky with that one).
I don't like Teucer without access to smoke for him to shoot through. Sensor units are our best way to reveal camo units.
Since most of the more recent PanO releases are mostly MO updated models in the foreseeable future, you guys think Acon is going to get a wave of a few releases before Varuna drops? Would like a blister with some extra Regular models for a hacker and minelayer, but GdA could go for the update along with another Montesa.
So Anyone (including Barakiel) think they can build a better SAA list for Biotechvore then the one Barakiel has posted?
I'd be swapping out the Core Fireteam Multi-Sniper for a Spitfire in that mission, but other than that... no. That's a solid list for Biotechvore.
I'd downgrade one Minelayer, the Paramedic and the Tinbot to get 6 points and 1 SWC for the Spitfire, but other than that I actually like ORCs for Biotechvore .
Yeah, they are a relatively mobile Haris and fairly solid in close. It is one of the situations where they are pretty solid.
Ok so the efficiency of a Orc Haris is considered to even outclass or at least match the utility of a GDA. I dub this list Bioshock! I am going to try a few games tonight with this list and then come back with questions about what I might have done wrong or right. My opponent will probably be playing Aleph or :shudder: Tohaa.
Last weekend I played Biotechvore with this: XXth Biotech ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 10 ORC (Fireteam: Haris) Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 36) ORC MULTI Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 40) ORC Lieutenant HMG / Pistol, Knife. (2 | 44) BAGH-MARI (Minelayer) MULTI Sniper Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 28) BAGH-MARI Paramedic (MediKit) Combi Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 24) BAGH-MARI (Number 2) Boarding Shotgun, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 19) BAGH-MARI HMG / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 26) BAGH-MARI Hacker (Assault Hacking Device) Combi Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 28) NAGA Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 30) TRAUMA-DOC Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14) PALBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) PALBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) 6 SWC | 295 Points Open in Infinity Army It was a Limited Insertion tournament, but in my opinion Biotechvore is one of those missions which favors one combat group lists a bit. Shotguns are very useful in the "killhouse" between the Biotechvore zones, and this list has plenty of them linked. Both fireteams have veriety of weapons for every range. I use the Bagh Mari Core as a defensive link, while the ORCs advances and do the dirty work. TraumaDoc is there for providing medical support for each of those teams (therefore the two Palbots), Naga provides hacking cover for the ORCs. I won the mission with 9:1, none of us were particulary lucky with dice, as far as I remember.
How did you find advancing with the MI Fireteam? I'm always worried that mobility penalty will end up hurting.
Agreed with @AdmiralJCJF , that's pretty bold. Generally advancing into the midfield is the last thing I want to do with a Medium Infantry fireteam, just because their slow speed eats up so many Orders, and their high cost makes them a tempting target for direct templates.
