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The Power of Vanilla

Discussion in 'Ariadna' started by Cabaray, May 30, 2019.

  1. Cabaray

    Cabaray Well-Known Member
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    Comrades!

    I would like to talk about what all the new profiles bring to Vanilla, mercs and all. For example with the Liberto Minelayer as a added profile to make the Ariadna shell game even broader and krakots making good use of the smoke trail your other Warbands make. I am pretty happy with Vassily whoes chain of command makes aggressive lieutenants possible, like the Vet Kazak HMG who comes with a swc reduction.

    We are really spoiled for choice as off now, so I would like to know. Do you stick to what is tried and tested, or did you spice it up with the new toys.
     
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  2. Bellyflop

    Bellyflop Well-Known Member

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    Liberto - I only take the SMG version. 1 SWC is too much when Chasseurs exist.

    Vassily - hes ok in vanilla. His biggest value is a specialist. For that role I like Pavel in vanilla more.

    Never take the Vet Kazak in Vanilla. The Spetsnaz is better and cheaper.

    The power of vanilla Ariadna is finding the most point efficient models in the entire faction to specialize your lists. Other factions work better with more generalists or versatile models, Ariadna does not.
     
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  3. Tongfa

    Tongfa proudly selling out since 1991

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    I like how Ariadna survives the reactive turn with camo shell games in depth. Like the first layer is your hardcases and the libertos minelayer who screen for sensor bots and kamikaze palbots, protecting the second layer of chasseur minelayers and foxtrots. While I do like the K9 Strelok, I've had a new appreciation for the casual 17-point Strelok SMG. I also like taking the Scout E/M minelayer, because he just keeps these HI Link teams and the ocassional tag honest, as well as covering for enemies that really just don't carry about eating the AP mine.

    Also, this might be a bit controversial, but I actually love using the Ratnik Molotok as my Datatracker. His high armor actually does really well in this meta (Varuna, Spiral) that punishes 1-wound Visual mod active turn killers like the Spets.
     
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  4. RasPuto

    RasPuto Active Member

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    No criticism here, but I think that fireteam's bonuses are so much needed versus a lot of stuff right now so, out of curiosity, what can you do against (for example) a linked Kamau using Vanilla Ariadna? Teardrops/blast weapons could be the answer, but they're usually on models Kamau (or other linked snipers) would kill easily, thanks to MSV and link's bonuses.

    My question is genuine, as I'm a TAK and USARF player but I'd love to play Vanilla more, since I love so many models from the generic list.
     
  5. Reservup

    Reservup Active Member

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    The short answer is don't engage it directly. A Kamau will outgun anything in vanilla Ariadna in a straight firefight. It's supposed to though, that's PanO's thing.

    You shouldn't be playing on a table where the Kamau (or any ARO turret) has complete coverage so sometimes it's best to just ignore it and do the mission.

    If you absolutely, simply MUST remove it however you should be able to get close enough to engage it in bad range bands by being sneaky (as any good Ariadnan should be).

    Camo is excellent for this, because even if you're seen he can only declare discover or idle. So just move again into total cover, re-camo and repeat until you can engage it.

    Cautious move is great for sneaking through fire lanes.

    Streloks have an Antipode buddy to soak up ARO's so they can move safely if needed into good range bands.

    Antipode packs are insanely fast, you only really need one or two orders to move close enough to get into CC. They are essentially homing missiles, if they die but kill his ARO piece well that's excellent.

    In USARF you have Van Zant who can casually saunter on behind him and shoot him in the back.

    My usual solution to those problems if I can't ignore them is Dog Warriors. Dual template weapons hurt a lot, and they can tank an ARO or two and laugh it off.

    If I can sneak close enough sometimes I like to deliberately walk through an ARO. If they shoot me and I tank it great. If not, I transform into a much bigger threat who can lob grenades (spec fire) from total cover gleefully until the Kamau dies.

    In TAK a linked line Kazak with grenade launcher is fun for removing pesky models from out of line of sight.

    There are lots of options!
     
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  6. WiT?

    WiT? Well-Known Member

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    I've played against Antipodes quite a bit, and found that while they can *get* to anything, their actual ability to kill stuff is super limited. Rolling one or two dice on 20 against random CC scores of 16 etc if they lose camo on the way in leads to failure a surprisingly high amount.
     
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  7. ZlaKhon

    ZlaKhon New scale enthusiast

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    Pretty much this. If removing the Kamau ends up being absolutely necessary, coordinated orders with sufficiently dangerous weapons can do the trick. But that is difficult to set up and most efficient list builds aren’t exactly overflowing with panzerfausts etc
     
  8. Tongfa

    Tongfa proudly selling out since 1991

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    Pretty much you don't. There's nothing in the Ariadna list that can realistically go toe-to-toe with a kamua MSV backed by a core link. Even if some nerd does the percentages, the truth is there's no one piece that can take multiple rounds of active turn shooting without fearing a crit or having a decent chance of winning the fight. As such, the strategy more becomes trying to take the kneecaps out of the Varuna player, killing their midfield Zulus, their Patsy Haris, siccing the Antipodes on their Croc Man, etc.

    Ariadna fights like rabid mongrels in the short-range midfield skirmishes, but they die like animals to long range firepower. It's part of the reason I've long moved away from the old "dual spets" meta that was/is prolific. I think you just give up too much midfield control + tricks (like the SAS CRAP / Scout e/m minelayer that hides amongst your sea of camo) to bring two Spets. Back to your original question, having kicked the knees out of the Varuna player by killing their solo/haris specialists, then you might force them into moving their core fusiler link into the semi-mid field, where they're ripe for mine + shoot catch 22s.

    If Infinity was a game of Chess, then Ariadna is a faction where all you get are Knights. Own the midfield, and stay away from fighting the monster kamua ARO on its own terms.

    Side note - I actually like playing against mixed monster links like the Kamua MSR/Fusiler as a vanilla ariadna player. Prior to this, you never really felt the fluff "technological disadvantage" that Ariadna supposedly faced. Now you do feel it. You do feel like your guns and tech are like 200 years behind everyone else's. It's a happy puzzle to solve.
     
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  9. Bellyflop

    Bellyflop Well-Known Member

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    Vanilla vs VIRD is a very difficult matchup. The way to deal with the sniper is to go after the other members of the link team first. Once the core team is down to 4 members, the odds for a Spetsnaz shooting the Kamau are decent (45% vs 24.5% for the Kamau). If you can get rid of sixth sense, it becomes even better.

    So the problem now is : How do you break the 5 man bonuses.
    • If, and it is a big if, you can get line of fire to a weaker member of the team with something like a Spetsnaz, engage that model first. An Orc with a Feuerbach or HMG is a valid target! (47% vs 17% even in a 5 man core)
    • Most likely, the other members of the team will be hiding. You need models to cross the table and get in very close to the VIRD list. Unfortunately, VIRD has some of the strongest ARO pieces in the game. A non-marker state model is going to get shot at by Helots or isolated by a Zulu Cobra on the way in.
    • If you can land some inferior infiltrating grunts in the right spot, those make a good first wave suicide run. After those die, suicide run Uxia in, then after her try for some Chasseurs or Streloks.
    • Antipodes are very risky. The large silhouette of the Antipode invites discovers, which then open them up to jammers and Helot missiles. Terrain of course can change this, but don't count on Antipodes getting there most games. If you are bringing Antipodes, save those for the non core team models as a second or third turn attack.
    • A final, order intensive option, is to get bring a SAS and spec fire grenades at the link team. The odds are low, but if you can hit two or three at a time keep hurling them until someone dies.

    You will lose some strong models just picking off Fusiliers, but the poor trades will help win the mission. People will tell you 'just ignore the Kamau!', but the VIRD player will put it somewhere where you cannot.
     
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  10. tox

    tox SorriBarai
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    Ariadna and problem in the same sentence... Seriously?
    12 points 0,5 SWC to wreck the unbeatable fireteam...
    Ariadna
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]1
    MÉTRO Rifle, Light Grenade Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 12)

    0.5 SWC | 12 Points

    Open in Infinity Army
     
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  11. barakiel

    barakiel Echo Bravo Master Sergeant
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    Best solution I've seen so far is coordinating 4 weapons with 32-inch range.

    Yeah, it's a shakeup from the usual Vanilla Ariadna approach to listbuilding. But it's healthy for new releases to force meta changes.
     
  12. RasPuto

    RasPuto Active Member

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    Which weapons?
     
  13. RasPuto

    RasPuto Active Member

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    Thanks for the explanation guys, really useful!

    Tomorrow I will play TAK though, for Siren's Call campaign. 200 points vs Tunguska in Quadrant Control. We'll see what I can do, as I plan to avoid bringing a fireteam.
     
  14. barakiel

    barakiel Echo Bravo Master Sergeant
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    Ideally something that hits hard and serves other useful functions, like Camo AROs. I know a CHA guy who, in response to the new powerful mixed Core links, is fielding two Caterans and a Scots Guard missile specifically to use with Coordinated Orders. CHA does that very well thanks to Inspiring Leadership and free Coordinated Orders, but there's no reason you couldn't replicate it with Vanilla-appropriate choices. Tankhunter big guns, Caterans, Spets for a Burst 2 Spearhead, etc.
     
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  15. Bellyflop

    Bellyflop Well-Known Member

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    Caterans are irregular and without Wallace you can't coordinate them :(
     
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  16. barakiel

    barakiel Echo Bravo Master Sergeant
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    You can if all other participants are Irregular too.
     
  17. Bellyflop

    Bellyflop Well-Known Member

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    Sure, but you can't coordinate a Cateran, Spetsnaz, and Tankhunter all at the same time like you suggested.
     
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  18. barakiel

    barakiel Echo Bravo Master Sergeant
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    I get you. The list of units was intended to respond to RasPuto's question... Units with big guns that perform multiple roles.
     
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  19. Tongfa

    Tongfa proudly selling out since 1991

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    2x T2 + ML Wallace List
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]8 [​IMG]2 [​IMG]1
    HIGHLANDER GREY AP HMG, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, CCW. (1.5 | 34)
    VOLUNTEER Chain Rifle, Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 6)
    VOLUNTEER Chain Rifle, Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 6)
    VOLUNTEER Chain Rifle, Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 6)
    VOLUNTEER Chain Rifle, Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 6)
    S.A.S. (Forward Observer) Rifle / Pistol, AP CCW, Knife. (0 | 24)
    McMURROUGH 2 Chain Rifles, Grenades, Smoke Grenades / Templar CCW (AP + DA). (0 | 32)
    VOLUNTEER Chain Rifle, Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 6)
    VOLUNTEER Chain Rifle, Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 6)
    WARCOR (360º Visor) Flash Pulse / Stun Pistol, Knife. (0 | 3)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]4 [​IMG]5 [​IMG]3
    WALLACE Lieutenant Combi Rifle + Light Flamethrower, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, EXP CCW. (0 | 35)
    UXÍA McNEILL (Covert Action) (CH: Limited Camouflage, Superior Infiltration, Specialist Operative) Boarding Shotgun, D-Charges, Smoke Grenades / 2 Assault Pistols, AP CCW, Knife. (0 | 27)
    SCOT (2nd Battalion) CH: Camouflage Missile Launcher / Assault Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 31)
    CATERAN T2 Sniper Rifle / Pistol, AP CCW. (1 | 24)
    CATERAN T2 Sniper Rifle / Pistol, AP CCW. (1 | 24)
    112 Light Shotgun / Pistol, CCW. (0 | 12)
    HIGHLANDER Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 6)
    HIGHLANDER Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 6)
    HIGHLANDER Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 6)

    5 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    Something like this? - Using the Inspiring Leadership of Wallace to coordinate 2x T2s + the Missile Launcher to kill long-range threats allowing warbands to exert board control.

    Thinking about putting Wallace and the big guns in group 1 so he can tuck into the link team at the end of an active turn for SSL2 for reactive.
     
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  20. barakiel

    barakiel Echo Bravo Master Sergeant
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    @Tongfa
    Yeah, I think that's the notion. I can't comment too heavily on the list, but it looks nicely built to execute that coordinated order tactic. I think getting Wallace up to 5 man bonuses for defensive purposes is a smart idea.
     
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