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The obsolete profiles

Discussion in 'Access Guide to the Human Sphere' started by Freki, Aug 2, 2019.

  1. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    First and foremost, the Bao profiles with LSG shouldn't pay max price for them due to overlap with the combi, but they are.

    Second, compare the Epsilon.
    +1 BS, +1 PH, -1 WIP, -1 ARM, +3 BTS
    -Courage, +Bioimmunity, +Mimetism
    +Nanopulsar
    For 1 extra point. That's a pretty dire list and not even a difference in CC to blame stuff on. It's fairly clear here that the Bao is simply not made with the same pricing table as the Epsilon. My best guesstimate is that Bao Multi Sniper should be 24 or 25 points using the same pricing table as the Epsilon. (Unless stats only scale in points cost for the stats that Bao have better and Mimetism is only 1 points - which to be frank would be screaming "FIX ME" if true)
     
    meikyoushisui likes this.
  2. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    According to the Moblot, Mimetism is 2pts (on a BS13 trooper).

    MOBLOT Rifle, Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 21)
    MOBLOT (CH: Mimetism) Rifle, Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 23)
     
  3. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Everytime I look at it with as many samples as possible I find it inconsistenly priced. It should be 2 or 3 points, but I wouldn't be able to say for certain.
     
  4. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    Maybe their pricing is “wholistic”, meaning they take the rest of the army into account for pricing. If that’s the case, they are doing a bad job of it.:disappointed_relieved:

    The thing that irks me the most is the lack of long range weapons. Bao long range weapon is the MSR. Djanabazan get HMG, Intruders HMG, Kamau HMG, etc. This is why they compete with the Rui Shi. It has the range, MSV, upgradable by a hacker, movement, 2 levels of unconscious, etc.
     
    #44 Space Ranger, Aug 9, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2019
  5. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    CB claims they follow a pricing formula, and add or subtract skills/abilities/etc to get the unit priced where they want it.



    Yeah, Bao are police marksmen. Take a Wu Ming if you want an HMG (and honestly I think Wu Ming should be packing a Spitfire, since Wu Ming's job in-fluff is doorkicker.)
     
  6. archon

    archon Well-Known Member

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    I learned Bao the hard way. I like them from fluff and design, but they were not a must have for me. But I do not have the combat REM box and the Hsien is to expensive to take him every time. So I get a box and painted them - now they are the most rarly used unit. ISS is a sectorial with many, if not the most MSV2 choices, but since I buyed and painted the combat REMs I kicked out the Bao´s I used most (Sniper & Combi), because now I have fast, buffable, MSV Spitfire, that is shock immum! So Bao only in the (very) rare case of playing a Link, need a sniper vs. warbands (Haq, Ariadna) or the BSG Bio/MSV if I go vs. Imps. If you wan´t a MSV Sniper in Vanilla, you now take Haidao. More expensive but last longer and has a higher BS.

    At the moment they are simply too expensive for their job. The link with the Pheasant is okay, but very expensive SWC wise. If you take a side look to MAF or QK the can make 5 man links with all members have msv and have high burst weapons. And now we´re coming to the point what Bao needs: High Burst. If a Bao with Spitfire is a couple of points over the Rui Shi, it will still be taken if the Bao is linkable ... a Wildcard maybe? Next: The have no specialist, a MSV with FO will be a good linkable ARO vs. Warbands (maybe the contender/BSG version). Baos need a rework badly!
     
  7. WiT?

    WiT? Well-Known Member

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    The Bao is a casualty of how CB price their units. Really, whats essentially a Celestial Guard with + BS and MSV2 shouldn't cost double the price. All those little shifts, like 1 pip of WIP (*hugely* overcosted on a nonspecialist) or ARM or whatever add up fast and torpedo the profile.

    I've argued that bare bones MSV2 troopers with combi rifles and the like, should be in the mid-teens for cost. Let the one with the gun cost mid twenties or more (still disagree) but if the basic options are to be playable at all they need a steep discount.

    What I'd like to see is at the end of each ITS, CB evaluates the least popular profiles and announces a set of changes for the next season. If possible, weight the profiles both on if they are popular *and* on if they are popular in winning player's lists. If the bottom 10% of units got a change, even if it was nothing but a discount tacked on with no rules changes, after a while most of the bad profiles would be pretty competitive against the good ones.
     
  8. MikeTheScrivener

    MikeTheScrivener Kamau Amphibious Intervention Operative

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    Bear in mind Kamau HMG does not have MSV2, only the MSR does. Something like the Nisse would be a better comparison
     
  9. Papa Bey

    Papa Bey Clueless Wonder. Still.

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    So you feel that Corvus Belli will do a better job the second time around?
     
  10. WiT?

    WiT? Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely. Its really hard to design things correctly and the more iterations of the design that you go through, and the more testing (in this case, by player by in or rejection of the profiles) the better it will turn out.

    For every failure in the game, theres ten successes. I have total confidence that CB could fix the profiles if they put their mind to it.
     
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  11. Papa Bey

    Papa Bey Clueless Wonder. Still.

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    Or the more that player bias will distort things even further. I approach N4 with more nervousness than eagerness.
     
  12. Weathercock

    Weathercock Well-Known Member

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    I've said it in another thread in the YJ forum, but the comparison between Cuervo Goldstien and the Liu Xing paints a pretty pathetic picture for Louie, and spits in the face of the idea of a "heavy infantry" AD unit.
     
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  13. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    The blatant ego on display with the self-inserts with OP profiles needs to be reigned in.
     
  14. Weathercock

    Weathercock Well-Known Member

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    I hadn't realized this particular comparison until I started looking more closely at the Liu Xing (what can I say? I love the model, in spite of how bad that profile is), but now that I have, I'm actually kind of angry about it. And it's not like Louie's an old profile either.
     
  15. Brother Smoke

    Brother Smoke Contractor for the Tartary Army Korps

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    My opinion is that people have entirely too many opinions
     
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  16. A Mão Esquerda

    A Mão Esquerda Deputy Hexahedron Officer

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    But, that's like, just your opinion, man.
     
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  17. Alphz

    Alphz Kuang Shi Vet. Retired.

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    Try using the multi-rifle and stop thinking of it as an alpha piece where you have to use explode and you might start being pleasantly surprised.

    Explode is nice as a hail mary option. But dropping a BS13 multi specialist into the midfield can be game winning. Liu Xing is a beast at highly classified. I went from hating that mission to just lol'ing at how easy it is in some draws to achieve every single one in a single turn from a liu xing walking on.
     
  18. Alphz

    Alphz Kuang Shi Vet. Retired.

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    This. With some exceptions, which are more irritating than game breaking. CB creates really good profiles. and when they do revisit profiles the changes are often pleasantly good.
    If they systematically did it each ITS I think people would generally be pretty happy.
     
  19. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Remember, IA lost the Tiger Soldier for this.
     
  20. ZlaKhon

    ZlaKhon New scale enthusiast

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    Can you elaborate a bit more on this?

    As a (currently proxying) O-12 player, I think that Goldstein is a really bad profile, the only reason I‘d consider painting the model would be to proxie a Delta with BSG. Compared in a vacuum to a great AD character like Raoul he just doesn’t bring enough utility to get a reliable return of investment. All he is, is a robust AD BSG with BS13, no visual mods, good CC and no CC delivery system outside of stealth AFTER ADing. In faction, I can get a BS12 AD BSG at almost half the price that can also be a specialist and between all the glue from Madtraps and Riotstopperd or if needed the Feuerbach Gamma, I think O-12 really doesn’t need him as a TAG hunter or something.

    I haven’t played Yu Jing in some years, so I don’t want to sound too opinionated, but for the Liu Xing I see a certain appeal and would see myself including him in some lists. The Highly Classified argument @Alphz brought up (for the AHD I assume) sounds pretty convincing and also the specialist operative seems to have a lot of utility.
     
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