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The lonely Shang Ji

Discussion in 'Yu Jing' started by Space Ranger, Apr 24, 2019.

  1. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    If they ever break up nested skills, like Martial Arts also including Stealth and Courage, you could have more troops with Marital Arts Level 1! think maybe all YJ HI having Marital Arts Level 1. But without the extra stuff.
     
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  2. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    @Space Ranger "Marital Arts" means something very different in English than "Martial Arts" XD
     
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  3. Zerooness

    Zerooness Member

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    thought the same.
     
  4. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    Both involve fighting though right? :facepunch::stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:
     
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  5. Sedral

    Sedral Invincible Officier

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    Slight necro, but I wanted to share some recent though about shang-jì.

    If there's one thing that really differentiate zuyongs from shang-jìs it's how the later are better equipped for close-ranged engagement: spitfire, flamethrower, AHD as well as better PH/CC/ARM/BTS, attributes who are more likely to be used the closer you get to the ennemy.

    So I really have only one question: Why the hell are zuyongs the ones capable of pulling off the NCO + TA 14+ orders Paintrain, when shang-jìs were obviously designed for this kind of thing?

    Seriously, the more I think about it, the more I feel like the best way to fix shang-jì would simply be to make Taï sheng a Shang-jì, and remove tac awareness on zuyongs:

    You want sturdy yet cheap HIs to hold the line and spray your opponent from afar while other units take all the risks? You take Zuyongs.

    You want a team of badasses to agressively push in your opponent's face and get the job done? You take shang-jìs. Don't even need to go for a full team mind you, even a simple haris with both Tac Aw profiles and Taï Sheng would get the job done, but you could also go all in so you can get some hackers (AHD/Haidao KHD), some long range firepower (HRL/Haidao MSR), or just pad it out with cheap REMs just to get the sweet sweet bonuses.

    There, done. Both units have their own strenght and purpose.

    Of course it would require a few modifications regarding fireteam compositions and Taï Sheng as well since the MK12 and the spitfire are a bit too similar:

    - On fireteams, remove wildcard on Shang-jì. Eventually make zuyongs counts as zhanshi for fireteams, though I'm not really a fan since it would seriously devaluate the zuyong full team.

    - On Taï Sheng, if she is to complete shang-jìs gear wise then she need to help them either at below 8" range or beyond 24". But first, I'd change her lore a bit. If shang-jìs are supposed to have the latest armor, then she'd need to be the most shang-jì of all shang-jì and to this end I'd make her the go-to prototype field-tester for Yu-jing. The best armor the State-Empire has ever conceived, guns whose existance is only known by a handful of people, stuff that would horrify the 0-12 and make them rewrite the concillium convention on the spot if they ever learned about it. That's the kind of gear she'd use.
    Lore wise, a hot-headed gal who fought her way to being the very best (like no one ever was), and ultimately being trusted enough by the high command to handle the shiniest toys is kinda cool and totally something Yu-jing would push for propaganda. Design wise, giving her prototypes means no holds-barred: BTS9? 6-4 move? One-of-a-kind gun? It's fair game if it's not supposed to exist anywhere else.
    Without going too ham on the design I think an heavy shotgun would be an interesting addition to any shang-jì team while still being fairly exotic considering it's not weapon you find on humane unit. It's also fairly cheap and would help keep her price reasonnable or pay for fancy stuff.


    Anyway, that's mostly whishful thinking at this point since it's definitely too late for a change of this magnitude. But It's just such an obvious missed opportunity for the shang-jìs, the answer was right here, with their new rules and units, and yet, somehow, they missed it. Or purposefully ignored it, who knows...
     
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  6. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    It seems like the main purpose of the Tac Awareness Zuyong was for Dashat, honestly.
     
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  7. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    I don't think making the sectorial rely on an even costlier HI is a good idea, at least not without making Zhanshi unlimited wildcards. There's still very strong concerns for Shang-Ji performance compared to cost, they are a tiny bit better than Zuyong but they are far more than a tiny bit more expensive.
    Zuyong TA HMG carries this sectorial.

    Above all else, though, I'd be very concerned if Shang-Ji lost wildcard without also being modified heavily enough to reduce cost enough to make a core of them viable for competitive play. That AHD, as costly as it is, is frequently my MVP by simply virtue of access and wildcard. (A Zuyong AHD profile would replace it, if there were such a thing)

    I still think Tai Sheng as template for Shang-Ji is the best. Much like Krit, her main difference to regular Shang-Ji would be exotic weapons and skill combinations.
     
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  8. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    If wishes were fishes my friend! I agree and I've said nearly the same. Shang Ji were meant to be what the Mowing are. They could have done a Gwailo or Azrial on them. When IA came out, they could have named the Mowang, Shang Ji, and we never would have known! We would have been “oh cool!” look at the new Shang Ji!

    At this point... we just need to play with what we have, not what we want. Or not play it at all! Which is the case for many. I'm really not seeing many people take the Shang Ji in lists and at this point, the few that do take them are usually trying to make a point for some reason. Not because it's actually good. And what will be funny is that they will probably be the next IA box set lol.
     
    #68 Space Ranger, Jul 1, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2019
  9. Fire@Will

    Fire@Will Well-Known Member

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    Having played plenty of hacker/gun duos in Druze, the AHD/Tinbot TA duo seems neat. It's pricier than the Druze options, for sure, but much more survivable. Hackers gain WIP bonuses in plenty of ITS missions these days; remains to be seen whether that lasts, but if it does they're a durable team that can operate as another vector.
     
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  10. Khalipo

    Khalipo Active Member

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    I think I already mentioned it but, look at the asawira profile. That screams shangji for me
     
  11. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Yeah... give them MA+1 (or MA-1) instead of the more Asawira-unique Religious, Regeneration and Assault and you'll have a statline and base skill line that's worthy of the title "Superior"
     
  12. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    I've said for a long time that Shang Ji need Marital Arts and some more CC weapon choices. I find it almost insulting that in all of IA only 1 troop has Marital Arts!! and that's the Hulang who is not that great himself IMHO.

    Edit. Just to add that in all of Yu Jing there's only 8 troops with Martial Arts and one of them is a Merc! and other is "Japanese" (Ninja)! And of HI only 3, Hulang, Hsien, and Crane. PanO has 8 HI with Marital Arts. Just sad. :sob:
     
    #72 Space Ranger, Jul 14, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2019
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  13. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    You know, I had not looked at that...

    The Asawira would make an excellent Shang Ji profile, though I might keep Assault on the Shangawira.
     
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  14. Stuffist

    Stuffist Well-Known Member

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    Shangawira. I like it.
     
  15. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    Right now I'd be happy with just Marial Arts L1 and some DA CCW.
     
  16. Daemon of Razgriz

    Daemon of Razgriz Ninja sniper

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    While I'm the opposite. Lose about 3pts of CC and the CCW. Then give everyone TA and/or make them BS 14. Lose the excessive profiles and make them all have some form of specialist weapons. Combi/lft hacker or tinbot is fine. Hacker and HRL need TA. Make them the pointman to zuyong teams. Tough, heavily armoured with the right weapon to do what you need.

    Multirifle/ LFT
    BS/ LGL or BS/ grenades
    COMBI/LFT (hacker, number 2 and tinbot.)
    HRL
    Spitfire

    They kind of fulfill these roles already. That's how I used them for. They just need to be further geared to do that. I don't mind them being expensive and tough. If their job is to be the link leader in the critical FtF rolls. Now I know people will look at expensive. I mean worth it expensive. They pay for the stuff that will make them work as a link leader carrying the proper gun. Expensive for shite is just that. Shite.
     
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  17. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Either would work and either would be leagues better than what the Shang-Ji are at the moment. A rough estimate is that a Shang-Ji that uses 1 point of ARM to pay for BS, useable level of CC, and Martial Arts wouldn't run all that much more expensive simply because of how expensive ARM scales.
     
  18. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    I doubt they would ever give a non-pano HI line trooper BS14. +CC, CCW, and possibly Grenades of some sort would be a good cheap addition. I’d also like Heavy Flame thrower, Boarding Shotgun, Vulcan Shotgun.

    Edit, other than Yan Huo which is a vastly different troop.
     
  19. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Pan-O doesn't have HI line troops, that's unique to Yu Jing. They're all Veterans (equivalent of Hulang, Liu Xing and Daofei) or better.

    But I think we can all agree Shang-Ji shouldn't be lower than Veteran, either.
     
  20. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    Kind of funny that the HI Elite/Veteran PanO has close same number of troops as YJ HI Line Troops.
     
    Ariwch likes this.