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The lesser used skills

Discussion in 'Access Guide to the Human Sphere' started by prophet of doom, Jan 20, 2018.

  1. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Err... probably not, unless they, too, have Assault or Berserk (which Haramaki do not)

    It's a bit of an unknown whether Assault is meant to be a composite skill containing Move + CC Attack like the effects suggest or if it's strictly a self-contained skill. Probably the latter.
     
  2. Barrogh

    Barrogh Well-Known Member

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    Well, technically it's an entire order skill that has certain effects. They are similar to movement plus CC Attack sequence, but other than that...
     
  3. Teslarod

    Teslarod when in doubt, Yeet

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    A Move rolled into another Order is a bit of a conundrum. Move is part of Dodge, Engage, Cautious Move, Assault and probably others Skills I haven't considered.

    Same as BS Attack is part of Surprise Shot, Intuitive Attack, Triangulated Fire etc.

    The more I think about it the more I realize skills rolled into others is fairly common.
     
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  4. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Aye, but there's a bit of a difference here.

    Dodge, Cautious Move and Engage are all moves.
    Surprise Shot is a BS Attack and Surprise Attack is a CC Attack.
    Assault is Move + CC Attack. As in the actual skills, but does that mean that Haramaki will declare Move or does it mean they will not declare Move because they can't declare the skill that this Move declaration is contained within?

    In either case, the LOF requirement makes Assault a bit on the difficult side to execute and the self-imposed negative MOD that it comes with is a bit punishing compared to the numerous and cheap high-burst BS Weapons out there.

    As a side-note, the skill has a quasi-LOF requirement - does that mean this skill's CC Attack is affected by e.g. Nimbus Zones?
     
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  5. prophet of doom

    prophet of doom Well-Known Member

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    The other members of a fireteam would not move because Assault is a skill separate from the skill Move. Just like the other members of a link cannot move if one climbs or jumps. They are different skills, as I understand it.
     
  6. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Erm... the other members can Jump. The limitation is that they have to declare the same skills and (informally) that the leader is the one exclusively making the attacks. Movement Skills are just fine for the rest to perform.
     
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  7. prophet of doom

    prophet of doom Well-Known Member

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    so you are saying that one team member can climb and the others can move? I find that a bit strange because move is a different skill than climb. I am not sure whether I understood you correctly. Only the leader makes the attacks, that is obvious.
     
  8. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
    Infinity Rules Staff Warcor

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    No, he's saying that if the Team Leader Jumps, the whole Fireteam can Jump.
     
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  9. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    It's a case of terminology. A Jump skill declaration results in all members of the Fireteam to move (action), but none in the Fireteam is going to Move (skill). The rules uses capitalization on skills to distinguish the two concepts.
     
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  10. prophet of doom

    prophet of doom Well-Known Member

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    Ok, now we understand each other. I agree and I am happy that someone else points this out. I had quite a few people wanting to use the climb skill with one fireteam member and the Move skill with the others. I always disagreed. This can get quite annoying when using the Zondcats and the Tomcats together. One is supposed to climb, meaning the other has to remain idle and waste the moving opportunity.
     
  11. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
    Infinity Rules Staff Warcor

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    That's because of the Tomcat's Climbing Plus, which lets them declare the Move Skill while on a wall.
     
  12. Solar

    Solar Well-Known Member

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    So are we saying that if my Asawira declares Assault the two Muyibs with him get to make a single Move?
     
  13. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    No, we're saying we don't know. :s
     
  14. Solar

    Solar Well-Known Member

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    Ah well, I'm sure someone will figure it out at some point.

    Anyway as to lesser used skills, be nice if Metachem came up a bit more. Morlocks get it and that's cool, and Krakots get L2 which I feel is crazy good but still cool, but I think that Nomads could maybe do with another crazy bio-modified combat freak at least.
     
  15. Raghart

    Raghart Well-Known Member
    Warcor

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    I have to say that automedikit is actually useful : i always spend an order coup-the-gracing those nasty speculo killers
     
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  16. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    Some Medikits are awesome (speculo, Sogarat...) because they let the troop keep going or keep being a threat... but others (Maakrep) are just an overcost.
     
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  17. Flipswitch

    Flipswitch Sepsitorised by Intent

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    I think the skill could do with viarable pricing but that's a can of worms I wouldn't want to get involved.

    Or just make it cheaper. Do this! 22pt Speculos!!!
     
  18. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    4 points for Automedikit is a bit on the high side, but meanwhile, Impersonation Plus is a tiny bit too cheap

    Meet you in the middle and let Speculo cost the 40 points they should?:stuck_out_tongue: (Only half-joking, Impersonation > Sup. Inf + TO Camo)
     
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  19. Solar

    Solar Well-Known Member

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    Automedikits are good. Even if it's just a 50-60% chance of working for most troops, they make your opponent spend another order putting a bullet into them because otherwise they'll get up, and that's absolutely a benefit in of itself, even if you never use the automed itself. Something I noticed for things with Regen too. They are potentially a little overpriced, but a lot of troops with them are actually really quite effective despite that I think. Zhayedan are something I use relatively often in Vanilla Haqq because your basic breaker rifle guy is effective BS 15 with a sort of ghetto Viral Rifle and not hugely expensive, when my opponent does put him down, he always then finishes the job. Otherwise he might get up, and he's scary enough that you don't want to let that happen.

    While we're on the top of Zhayedan, I really wish that the HMG, Missile Launcher and Boarding Shotgun got MML2. It's not like that'd be too powerful (after all, Spetsnaz have a MML2 HMG with camo and a MML2 BSg with mimetism!) and it would mean that you don't just always take the Sniper and Rifle options. I'd happily pay the points for that!
     
  20. Barrogh

    Barrogh Well-Known Member

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    Another quirk of units like unloved Maakrep is that if you intend leave her as ARO piece (yes, she isn't TO sniper or anything like that; but she still causes pain in you rely on, say, smoking WBs), there are plenty of places you can put her to insure the moment she gets shot she will fall out of LoF. In that scenario she may still affect opponent's decisions if he relies on troops she's actually good against.

    I prefer to compare it to Shock Plasma Rifle. Just to put things into perspective a little :wink:
    Anyway, they have an extra benefit of having doctors that can get themselves up, which may become more relevant in RTF. Not as good as effectively shock-immune djans or asawiras, but still.

    It's not that it will be broken or anything, but there are still things like unique faction thing, I'm not sure if that is not to be respected.

    You're right that it means the majority of Zhayedan are missing the very selling point of the unit atm though.
     
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