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The Kriza Borac Conundrum

Discussion in 'Nomads' started by ldgif, Aug 31, 2018.

  1. dlfleetw

    dlfleetw Well-Known Member

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    It was a forum post.

    At this point until something makes it to print it is unresolved in instances like that.
     
  2. Solar

    Solar Well-Known Member

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    Does that mean it stacks?
     
  3. cazboab

    cazboab Definitely not Cazboaz.

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  4. Ben Kenobi

    Ben Kenobi Well-Known Member

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    #24 Ben Kenobi, Sep 5, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2018
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  5. DaRedOne

    DaRedOne Morat Warrior Philosopher
    Warcor

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    I don't think this thread was meant to discuss the workings of CB. Let's keep it focused, guys.

    I was actually surprised the Kriza doesn't have the Haris skill. This makes a fireteam haris of them quite pointless. I'd rather duo with a hollow man hacker. Or maybe run two duos, each one with different guns.
     
  6. Zewrath

    Zewrath Elitist Jerk

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    This is entirely false and poor apologia. To enter SF STATE is an entire order the ARO is certainly not. One of the very first questions directly asked to CB about FA2 was whether or not it stacked with SF, the answer was yes. The 360 visor mk12 profile was literally crafted as a SF piece as it had multiple weapons and FA2 to support it, all of which have been destroyed (read the new FAQ about multiple weapons) and drastically undermined the entire point of the mk12 profile.
     
  7. cazboab

    cazboab Definitely not Cazboaz.

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    One can infer that the skill is still in use for the ARO because without the skill the state is impossible.
    An ARO is not in itself a full order, but full auto says "This Special Skill is not applicable when the attack is an Entire Order Skill" and suppressive fire is an attack which is an entire order skill, which allows you to enter the state. Since full auto is 'not applicable' when entering the state the trooper enters the suppressive fire state without full auto active.
    When and where did CB confirm that they stacked? Its possible that the answer was given in error, @HellLois could also have given his answer in error, but I think we can all sort of assume that once a thread is locked and moved to answered questions it's an official answer. If it's wrong then the FAQ should have overruled it.

    This and the flipflop on shock vs multi wound +NWI are to be polite, very interesting occurrences.
     
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  8. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    He didn't give his answer in error there was a "Umm, WTF?" thread that followed it up. It was a deliberate change in interpretation.

    https://forum.corvusbelli.com/index.php?posts/100020

    You're reaching with your interpretation. It's not how it was understood at all. You're basically saying that BS Attack is an Entire Order when performed using Suppression Fire: nothing in the rules supports that logic.

    It's a deliberate nerf. Which is fine. The issue is it disproportionately affected one of the least horrible profiles. Mk 12 Kriza was interesting and I don't think anybody had any real issues with it.
     
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  9. cazboab

    cazboab Definitely not Cazboaz.

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    No, I'm saying that if you can't activate a state with a skill active you can't use that skill in the state. Which come to think of it isn't in the rules anywhere either, since it only ever applies to FAlv2.

    Regardless of why, the latest ruling from CB is that it doesn't stack, and it's curious that ruling was left out of the FAQ...
     
  10. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    The SF ARO is not a Full Order, since you cannot perform Full Orders at all during your reactive turn. It was a botch, and trying to push the blame on the players seems to be the policy of the company, it's just that we all saw that one.

    As for the FAQ... it was promised a BIG one, all the community is still waiting. Meanwhile, GW is snatching players left and right between Kill Team (with alternating moving of models, even if everything else stays the same), Rogue Trader, and WH Conquest (dunno in UK, in Spain there was an inmense uproar with people snatching up to 10 copies of the first issue... that still has not been seen on all cities).
     
  11. Del S

    Del S Tunguskaball

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    Conquest has been quite popular in the Greater Glasgow and Ayrshire area, at least. But the notion some seem to hold that the 40k spinoffs represent a threat to Infinity puzzles me a little as over 20 years of GeeDubs experience tells me they don't support spinoffs forever, and playerbases are migratory. If anything, Conquest, KT, et all represent quite the long term prospect, because all those newer players getting in via the former and trying 40k or spinoffs may very well come Infinity way later, or come back when the Very Big Corporation of Nottingham grows bored and stops new content. GW are doing damn good stuff with community communications compared to how they've been in the past, but the reality is IMO that they represent a gateway into wargaming - and with Infinity doing pretty good itself with that community stuff (especially with the video updates) , I don't see a slip up on an FAQ as a killer blow. After all, there's a whole three sectorials to come, with new weapons and rules to give new confusions - I'd hope we get an FAQ on FA then rather than F All.
     
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  12. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    It impacts, if people decide to spend their monies on GW from September to December... In the Interplanetario interviews, it was mentioned (can'r remember if it was Interruptor or Bostria) that GW forced their hand (and that of the whole sector), so to speak, with their changes.

    So if I have an amount X to spend in miniatures (let's be real: we all have, more or less), and before I was spending 100% on Infinity (true story, aside from some Kickstarters for Reaper Bones, all my pocket money was for Infinity or, every fortnight or so, a chance grab at discounted videogames), and now I decide to spend an amount Y on GW models, now I'm not spending X+Y on miniatures, but X-Y on Infinity and Y on GW.
    And if I do that for enough time, and enough people do that, the question is if CB can endure during this dry spell without suffering in quality and production.

    The way I see it, KT is an attempt to snatch skirmishing-oriented players into the GW ecosystem, and make them start their own armies after getting a taste...
    In fact I have mentioned several times in the past weeks that I hope CB publishes a small game, even if it's kinda Star Saga / Descent / WH Quest / Space Hulk / Whatever in which you only need to buy a CB's starter to play.

    Nah, the FAQ is another issue altogether. But this same morning there was quite a heated (as in animated, not as in aggresive) discussion about The Armory mission, because of the doors requiring attacks to open, but the text stating later that all doors open simultaneously, so that must mean that it won't wait to the end of the order, and enemies can ARO to you, while you can do nothing.
     
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  13. cazboab

    cazboab Definitely not Cazboaz.

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    Cb's logic behind it is unknown, my suggestion is that if you can't enter the state with a skill active you can't use the skill until you exit the state, which hasn't ever come up before and is unconfirmed.

    As far as the way we were told of the ruling it's not great optics. There's a few other points were CB have issues on that, I'd only be guessing at the root causes, but a few of them at least aren't helped by people's egos and possibly the cultural divide between Spanish and English speakers...

    CB is right on the edge of being a corporation instead of a company I think, and as the bloke in a local shop once put it 'wargamers are tarts' so if they have to choose whether they think of us as players who buy stuff or customers who play their game...

    Players who buy stuff will put up with a lot more missed steps and enjoy the larking about by Bostria and Hellois.
    Customers playing a game expect to get what they want, and demand professional content from the brand ambassador and the head of ITS development...
    It's possible to retain some of both, but the effort required to do it is a lot more than picking one or the other
     
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  14. Wyrmnax

    Wyrmnax Well-Known Member

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    This, pretty much.

    The kriza is a active turn piece made to win ftf. The HMG is both better at it with the extra burst and cheaper, on a faction that is more strapped for points than SWC.

    If the costs were similar, then I would consider the Mk12. But for 9 points extra on top of something that is already expensive?

    "But you can put it in suppressive fire in the mi...."

    You will loose anything that you leave exposed in the enemy active turn. It is the nature of the game - active player can choose the best piece for the job and can usually pick the range of engagement. If he cant, then either he is a bad player or has been put in a very disvantageous situation.

    You shouldn't consider suppressive fire on your expensive troops as good - you should consider it a way to reduce the damage they will take. Don't plan to winning ftf on your reactive turn - when that happens it is luck.

    That said, a HMG kriza is as survivable as the MK12 kriza when in suppression, and you want to cover his back anyway since that is just good tactics.
     
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  15. loricus

    loricus Satellite Druid

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    They won't even blink don't worry about it.

    You must not play PanO!
     
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  16. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    I have a huge chunk of my meta who play by the philosophy "What's the most efficient way of killing things? Kill the enemy in ARO."

    It takes a particular mindset but it's certainly doable. Highly recommend @daboarder's PanO primers for examples.
     
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  17. kanluwen

    kanluwen Well-Known Member

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    Speaking as someone with the same amount of experience with GW...it's worth pointing out that the community engagement going on right now seems to be aiming at showing the idea that "they don't support spinoffs forever" is bunk. They're starting Kill Team Leagues with prize support that aim towards casual play, Shadespire's been a fairly big deal and is about to get its 'second edition'.
     
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  18. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    Exactly.

    I'm a bit embarrassed to admit that for the last... 4 months or so, all my gaming $$ has been going to GW, none to CB. I haven't bought a single CB product since I pre-ordered the JSA Army pack and Uprising book.



    It's worked in my gaming group. Though most of us have been dusting off old minis, raiding the bits box, not buying new.



    Add more roleplaying elements to it and I think we have a winner!



    Shadow War Armageddon.
     
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  19. kanluwen

    kanluwen Well-Known Member

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    Wasn't actually intended to be a full-on game like Kill Team or Shadespire. It was a one-off board game with a boatload of the new terrain, hence why the rules weren't sold separately at launch.
     
  20. loricus

    loricus Satellite Druid

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    The only purchases I've made since N3 have been buying the models people don't want out of packs and the Jaguars, and the N3 and HSN3 books. Because I have the models I want.

    Is there a way around that that isn't predatory? If you're vulnerable to predatory marketing, and one company employs it while the other doesn't, the first is going to make themselves seem like a priority. "Sure the latter is selling a new pretty model, but I can't even play the other game if I don't buy their new release."
     
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