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The JSA Uprising - Model Split Question

Discussion in 'Yu Jing' started by ThePlasticCrackBlog, Mar 2, 2018.

  1. Balewolf

    Balewolf It's all opinion

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    You get it, why would someone ever take people like this seriously!? That's a list of things people who want to be angry/complain about things like to spout off. Because nothing ever in the history of the world will make everyone happy.

    Perfect, you nailed it. Lets roll it out!
     
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  2. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Considering the people involved were worried about losing their access to early information, I'd say they're involved at "some level." I never suggested they modify the pages themselves.
     
  3. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    To be frank, no we don't.
     
  4. the huanglong

    the huanglong Well-Known Member

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    The Facebook fan page admins are usually more aggressive in policing criticism and controversial opinions (about anything) than the official forums, I don't think they need external direction to white knight, they just want CB senpai to notice.
     
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  5. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead
    Warcor

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    We know we'll see five more sectorials this year, not counting NA2 armies. We know IA will come at some point, and with JSA leaving I'd bet it'll be one of the first new sectorials to emerge.

    CB has a mixed track record, but suggesting they'll break a major, established faction is paranoia.
     
  6. A Mão Esquerda

    A Mão Esquerda Deputy Hexahedron Officer

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    Just because you suffer from paranoid delusions doesn’t mean THEY aren’t out to get you.
     
    oren_dotan, Aldo and Stiopa like this.
  7. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead
    Warcor

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    "A paranoid is just someone in possession of all the facts"
     
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  8. the huanglong

    the huanglong Well-Known Member

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    DID SOMEBODY SAY PARANOID?

    [​IMG]
     
  9. kepkeilen

    kepkeilen Well-Known Member

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    Wouldn't they be able to deal with all this paranoia (among other things) by going for a IA vs JSA box instead of a large JSA box?

    But I guess the current decision would do better business. JSA sells more than rest of YJ. So giving one of the four boxes of the year solely to JSA would be more profitable than splitting it between IA and JSA.
     
  10. meikyoushisui

    meikyoushisui Competitor for Most Ignored User

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    The two player boxes are marketed as entry points to the game -- apparently they only contain vanilla armies because sectorials are "advanced rules." I wouldn't mind a JSA vs. IA box, but can you imagine what kind of a fit a lot of other factions would throw about it? I mean, hell, look at all the salt within YJ just for reworking JSA...
     
  11. Paradur

    Paradur Fukurô Keibi
    Warcor

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    Come one guys, CB likes rattlIng cages and stir up people's emotions. From that point of view this campaign is perfect. And to be honest wargamers do need to get outside of their comfort zone.. you don't whine about not being able to use the old par's when you upgrade a computer do you? (Which is much more expensive). Just sit back and enjoy the change, and if you don't like change, yeah CB might not be for you, as they do then to change thing,which I personally like.

    But seriously, you've seen a spoler vid for a box indicating a JSA split nothing more nothing less. Well except the announcement that in the next week you will get a bunch of info about everything. So maybe, just maybe CB will give some info on what will happen to Vanilla, of you behave nicely. (I don't know of they will do this but I trust they know what they are doing)
     
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  12. kepkeilen

    kepkeilen Well-Known Member

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    It would be the same for the other factions either way. They wouldn't gain or lose anything if there were a vs box instead of an army pack. It would help to reduce the Yu Jing grievance by introducing IA. Though it would also probably sell less since JSA are more popular by far.
     
  13. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Yeah, that's bull. New computer parts are inherently more efficient due to advances in technology; if that happens to miniatures we call it power creep and it's generally considered to be bad.

    Enough with the shilling. We know from the GameTrade magazine that JSA is leaving Yu Jing; and "behaving nicely" shouldn't be the requirement as to whether or not the rules update will invalidate a bunch of player purchases. We're customers, not bootlicking serfs.
     
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  14. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    So since the reveal it seems we have two sides where you can slot people into it (for some people the geometric shape requires a slightly larger hammer to get them through the hole, but here it is)

    The Jump to Conclusion side: I'm a player who plays Yu Jing and has bought in fairly decently and I'm angry and upset that my faction is being nerfed and that there is no replacements for vanilla. I probably need to calm down and wait and see what's coming.
    The Explain Why This is Good For You side: I'm a player who doesn't play Yu Jing and see an opportunity to start Space Samurai without having to start collecting Yu Jing. I'm explaining to other people why they shouldn't be upset about their faction being nerfed because from everyone else' perspective this doesn't matter. I probably need to think a bit more about what I'm saying and what the immediate consequences are for the people who actually play the faction.

    Hope I stepped on everyone's toes.

    Now for some game theory, if a faction in Infinity is made up of its subset of miniatures, suggesting that a faction is unchanged when miniatures are removed is ludicrous. Infinity is a game where it is constantly and repeatedly noted that the most power comes from choice, and even side-grade profiles (profiles that aren't necessarily better, but provide a small variation compared to the common role - I'm looking at you, Tiger MSR) represents a net-increase in the faction's power level.
    With this in mind we should note that a number of models which are not considered side-grades, but upgrades compared to closest remaining profile, are going to be removed or are likely going to be removed. This means that not only is the power level of the faction decreasing, but it's going to decrease notably. As a side note; a lean faction with no or very few side-grade models can still perform well or overperform, side-grades contribute but not to a great degree so there is still going to be a case for removing as many side-grades as possible.
    Anyone saying that the faction is going to be unaffected or that there is little short-term consequence is just plain wrong, and objectively so. Unless the faction as it is caused problems, such that it was overperforming, then this is also an unnecessary consequence of the change. As we have already established, Yu Jing hasn't exactly been overperforming in general, so it is going to be critical what profiles replace the lost profiles - and more so when they are replaced. Invincible Army may very well bring us the troops necessary to replace the lost power curve, but that's also assuming that the new power level by which a faction is deemed worthy doesn't shift further by releases for other factions in the process.
    Last but not least, it is important to realise that some of the factions in game are getting big while others are lagging behind slightly. Constant side-grade releases aren't all that interesting so removing some profiles or doing something drastic about them is almost necessary so that the game can keep progressing.
    And a final note; the story can take a hike, we're discussing the game, not the intellectual property. It is more than possible to advance the story with secessionist Japan without removing them from the vanilla faction - we've had terrorists leading JSA for years for crying out loud.

    So taking all of this into account;
    1. Criticism over CB's communication is warranted.
    2. The sky isn't falling and it's important to not claim it is.
    3. Interestingly enough, to me this signals strongest with regards to Pan-O - in order to maintain game balance, the Varuna release is basically going to have to be the most disappointing release rules-wise that CB has ever produced (unless they do nuke roughly two sectorials worth of units from the Pan-O roster.
    4. With the loss of JSA, IA's new profiles interestingly enough has more reasons to not be 50 Shades of Power Armour
    Last but not least, someone brought improvements ISS up. That's improvements to the single worst sectorial the game had to offer shortly after N3 release, which managed to both be less popular and less functional than Shasvasti of Our-Rules-Don't-Work renown. I'm not sure improvements to ISS really qualify as compensatory measures for YJ Vanilla in preparation to the loss of JSA under those circumstances, particularly when said improvements hasn't made Vanilla skyrocket in performance.

    Too long didn't read
    Side 1: Don't panic, seriously.
    Side 2: Don't be a douche, nobody likes douches.
     
  15. ThePlasticCrackBlog

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    I don't really understand the freak out to be honest. Your models aren't getting removed from the game you'll still be able to play with them. Likely with just different models than you're used to around them. Try and shrug off the faction identity you have and being a bit more fluid will cause less stress. Likelihood is if you've been playing a while you'll have enough figures to play both factions but will have to change your play style. I like this, I think it's good that CB aren't afraid to shake things up.
     
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  16. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    It literally means you can't play with army setups you used to use. And if you used to sprinkle a few JSA units into your vanilla Yu Jing... now you can't. It's a loss of options. "Shrug off your faction identity" is a silly thing to say. Some people *liked* running Kitsune + Sun Tzu, for example. That option got taken away, and there's nothing to replace it and CB hasn't intimated that there will be.
     
  17. ThePlasticCrackBlog

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    But that's just tough titties. Things change all the time. And much like kip and Tom have said on mayacast having these changes forces you to change your list like limited insertion did and mission that make you take a TAG. You'll become a better player from it without relying on the same list every time
     
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  18. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Can we please stop with this particular straw man? It's particularly offensive when used to justify being an ass to someone else, but elsewhere it's bad enough.
     
    Dragonstriker, fenren, Shiwen and 2 others like this.
  19. Alphz

    Alphz Kuang Shi Vet. Retired.

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    Came here for interesting speculation.

    Got served over salted wine.

    Honestly, I'd understand being miffed, but the constant spamming in every frackin thread is getting tiresome and isn't really convincing anyone of anything other than one thing...

    You peeps need to maybe exercise some looking for the silver lining kind of thinking. This could be a great design opening for IA to really bloom. With the JSA profiles it was looking abit stuck for design space.

    As for your financial investment. Please. If you havent or won't still get value from them, you're either living in a much cheaper country than I am or your perceived entitlement is out of this world.
     
    Stiopa likes this.
  20. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Or maybe CB could have made a statement on the topic, which was sure to come up?