You're right! My mistake. That does increase the appeal of the hacker Mukhtar as a solo piece in missions with an exclusion zone. It's still more than I would want to pay for a hacker that doesn't have a marker state and will die to KHDs very quickly, but it might be to others' taste. I'm gonna disagree with you on that one. The Mukhtar's mimetism, not to mention extra BS, makes her a vastly better gunfighter than the Nahab. That would be true even if she didn't have MSV2, but I also disagree with your assessment of MSV2's importance. You don't know who your opponent will be when you build your list. Even if you did, camo and mimetism are very common. Plus, shooting through smoke is extremely strong, and Ramah has abundant smoke. The Nahab is also good, but because of it's deployment options and crazy cc. As a gunfighter it doesn't hold a candle to the Mukhtar red fury.
I think this opens a very interesting discussion. As a vanilla player, we have a variety of choices for ~30 pt combat regular hackers. I highlighted, IMO, the major benefits of each: Druze: 30 pts, 0.5 SWC Decent shooter (12) BS Attack (+1 Damage) Good Armor and decent BTS (3 each) Toolbox (Viral Pistol and D-charges) Only WIP 13 Veteran Pitcher Djanbazan: 30 pts, 0.5 SWC Decent shooter (12) MSV 2 Good Armor (3) Shock Immunity and regeneration at PH 13 Terrain (Total) Ragik: 31 pts, 0.5 SWC Decent shooter (12) Combat Jump and Parachutist WIP 15 Shock Immunity and Dogged Religious and Stealth Mukhtar: 31 pts, 0.5 SWC Excellent shooter (BS 13) Mimetism -3 Good MOV (6-2) Great BTS (6) Courage FD 4" Shock Immunity and NWI D-Charges Tuareg: 34 pts, 0.5 SWC Baseline shooter (11) Mimetism -6 Infiltration, Camo, and Hidden Deployment Surprise Attack WIP 15 Stealth Terrain (Total) When compared to each other, the Mukhtar looks pretty solid as a combat hacker with its 1.5 wounds. For the ITS Mindwipe mission specifically, it seems like a very good choice. In addition, all of them have good qualities. Of course, any of them could be supported by the excellent Barid killer hacker.
Very nice breakdown. For Vanilla, I don't think I'd want to spend ~30 points on a hacker - none of those options appeals to me. My choice would be the Hawwa - infiltration and marker state are key on a defensive hacker IMO (unless you're Nomads and can deploy Moran repeaters and backline hackers instead). At least the Mukhtar has FD which does make it more appealing to me than the Druze, Djan, or Ragik. If I were picking a non-infiltrating hacker, I'd be eying the Barid or even Ghulam hackers. Both are dirt cheap but hack just as well as the expensive options. Generally speaking I wouldn't be looking for a combat hacker, but you're right that Mind Wipe has a unique place for one. The Mukhtar is definitely worth considering, although with only a rifle+lsg, someone else will still have to clear the way before he can get up far enough to hit a console. Personally I think my choice would still be the Hawwa (apparently there's a typo in the scenario and you're actually allowed to make a camoed hacker your uberhacker), to start closer to the consoles and use camo to get up to them.
I want to start by saying that I'm not looking to be confrontational, but there are a few things that I'd like to touch on @QueensGambit : The difference between N3 and N4 is that nowadays the Mukhtar Red Fury can't just force wounds through tough defences with auto-wounding crits - that's a huge change! An ARM 1 trooper will save a hit from the Red Fury 55% of the time(!) and when going to ARM 3 (not very uncommon) the chance to save goes up to 65%! This means that a 36pt model can very plausibly bounce off the most basic of troops, not to mention the actually heavy armored ones! I once had a game where my Kiel-Saan Covert Assault Unit (from Spiral) used 6 orders to shoot at an unconcious Djanbazan with a burst 5 Red Fury (on optimal range) and failed to take him out - thanks to ARM 6 in cover! Highly unlikely? Yes! Plausible? Totally! We also have to remember that it's not about if a unit can be taken out, but rather how many orders it takes to achieve! Setting up smoke and shooting through it at non-sixth sensed models is good, but it also carries an opportunity cost because it requires the use of (atleast) two orders and two models. This is especially true in RTF where the only source of Impetous smoke is Carmen. At the end of the day, even the smoke doesn't guarantee inflicting wounds - it merely facilitates winning the face to face thus forcing ARM saves. So you aren't comfortable spending 31pts on a hacker who's got 1,5 wounds, can gunfight very competently and who saves a hit from Trinity 60% of the time? But you are confortable paying 26pts for a model with 1 wound, BS11, and who saves said Trinity hits only 25% of the time? The only things that 'Hawwa does better are costing 5pts less, deploying 8'' further (if the mission allows for it) and benefitting from Camo state. True, especially in vanilla Camo is great as it somewhat disguises what you are (or atleast cast a shadow of doubt on what you are), but as a defensive measure it is only useful as long as you're not sensored/discovered and/or you're willing (and able) to spend an order recamo; BTS 6 and NWI are after all always active, no effort required... If you just plain like the 'Hawwa, that's great - I loved him too while doing my stint with the QK! But categorically a stronger choice than the Mukhtar hacker, surely not?
The last time ran him the Mukhtar Doctor was able to run down a flank against my CA opponent (the mission was Acquisition), perform the HVT Inoculation Classified, take out a Flashpulse bot from afar, and dash a strech of open ground taking wound and making his way to my opponent's DZ, from which he took out an Ikadron and knocked a Shrouded unconcious from behind (the damned thing regenerated though) on turn one. This all took me 5 or 6 orders. The rests of the game he ran around my opponent's DZ taking pot shots at (rather distant) targets proceeding knock out couple of order generating models (he had chances for plenty more, but he lost most of his about 50/50 rolls). On my 3A I ran him into a position from which shoot at things attempting to reach the middle objective. He did not win me the game (I suffered a minor loss), but I felt that he helped keep my opponent on his toes, and in retrospect I should have been even more aggressive with him on my second and third turns!
As I said previously, the Mukhtar Red Fury wasn't a good option against heavy armour in N3, either. It's true that the chance of wounding a high ARM target was slightly higher with N3 crits, but it wasn't high enough to be worth spending the orders to attack those targets. Against low ARM targets, the crit change hasn't significantly reduced the odds of wounding, because two saves are still highly likely to cause a wound against those targets. So I disagree that the utility of the Mukhtar Red Fury has changed considerably between editions. The unit will function the same as it did in N3 against either high or low ARM. You're right that a red fury isn't guaranteed to wound even a low armour target, but that's true of almost any weapon in the game. If you want better odds, you need DA or viral rounds, which you won't find with high burst in a range outside 16". That's just Infinity - your opponents sometimes pass their armour saves. It doesn't work as an argument against the Mukhtar. I think we have very different assessments of the value of camo.
I totally can see both points of view and I believe the use of combat specialist really comes down to playstyle. For example, I go back and forth between a Najjarun versus a Kaplan Engineer all the time.
@QueensGambit I feel that our views aren't that far apart on the matter - we both feel that the Mukhtar Red Fury is a great gunfighter against light targets and that he/she should stay away from really tough foes! Which was the point I was trying to make in the arcticle! :) But surely higher DMG values make inflicting wounds more likely - even without forcing multiple saves? If low damage can't be held against the Mukhtar, then surely by the same logic Mimetism and high BS are also almost irrelevant reasons to bring him? Surely we must consider all of the factors (such as BS, Burst, DMG, modifiers imposed/countered, rangebands, maneuverability, survivability, self suffiency) when evaluating (attack)pieces? Which is great! We value different things differently, and propably we should even shift our evaluation of the value of any given thing based on the scenario, opponent, board and the state of the current game at any given moment! I'm not saying Mukhtar hacker is categorically better than Al Hawwa' - I'm saying he's not categorically worse!
A point or two of extra DAM makes very little difference to overall the odds of wounding. You're right that an extra point of BS also makes very little difference. Mimetism(-3), on the other hand, makes a very significant difference. (So does MSV2, against targets with mimetism or obscured by smoke).
My current go-to, all-comers Haqq list uses both a Hacker and Red Fury Mukhtar. I didn't rate them highly when the edition opened but I've really come to like them the more I play them. The Red Fury Mukhtar doesn't really need explanation but it is worth mentioning that in vanilla it benefits highly from being included in a list alongside an Azrail, which gives you highly effective firepower against a truly broad range of targets. The Hacker Mukhtar is one of Haqq's sleeper hits. It's affordable, an effective gunfighter, an amazing classified piece, and I have a soft spot in my heart for 6-2 hackers. They're just sleek to use; moving 6" on a MOV and making a hacking attack with the second short skill just feels incredibly efficient. Also: randomly BTS6.
Oh my word, I've been putting off getting the male bandit for ages now... totally kills two birds with one stone, thank you!
Well hot damn! I never noticed, but now that you pointed it out, the design of the Bandits does lend itself to very believable Mukhtar proxies! The swords don't quite fit the bill, but surely there's a work around for those... Thank you good Sir!
While the RF Muhktar was just slightly tamed by Meta changing to more ARM, I find it still amazing. The edition change just made rather use a Hacker instead of the Viral Rifle. Haris of RF, Doc, and Hacker bring enough tools to be able to take on anything offensively (In close quarters). I do miss every profile getting nanopulsers, but I guess they decided there is no point with shotgun change? I will agree with others that the RF Muhktar wasn't very good against high ARM units even in N3. Relying on Crits was barely reliable, and there were many a time in N3 that something like an Asura would be mean and just tank RF shots like they were nothing.
Oh boy, Mukhtar. They were the best thing N3, hands down. That might not be the case in N3, but only because there are some other appealing haris options now, like Janissaries and Zhayedan. I'll start with the red fury, since it seems to be generating the most buzz, and with good reason. The Mukhtar red fury is, in my opinion, the best unit in the game at winning face to face rolls, and then not killing its target. This has, as many have pointed out, only gotten worse with the change to crits and increased prevalence of high-armor units. That being said, it's still a phenomenal gunfighter that makes most of my lists. The other big one is the doctor. The ability to heal itself or the rest of the team is obvious. But he's also a fast, NWI, BS13 boarding shotgun with mimetism. And s specialist. Who can heal himself. I couldn't tell you how many games I've won from a bad spot by just dumping all my orders into him on turn 3. That being said, I dont like the Nasmat idea. It's way better order efficiency to bring your doctor into the midfield while running around killing things with the red fury. I would say that about 90% of the time I take Mukhtar, that's it. I only take those two. That's not to say the other options are bad, but just that I want more options than I get out of a 90-100 point haris. The haris is really more of a defensive option. Going from burst 4 to 5 on the red fury is a benefit, of course, but it doesn't really make you win a lot of fights you would otherwise lose. Instead, the haris lets you put a third model, especially the viral rifle, out in front to help protect your team. Mukhtar are a big offensive threats, so your opponent will often look to take them out. Having to get through a burst 2 BS13 viral rifle with 2 wounds and mimetism before getting to the models that really matter makes that a much more difficult prospect.
So, I played Unmasking against my buddy's Tunguska tonight. I made a few lists, and actually wound up printing/bringing the wrong one. TL:DR - I meant to take the Mukhtar Hacker, but took the Mukhtar Red Fury instead (again, by accident). That said, it did REALLY well. He brought a Szalamander that tore me up in the first turn, killing two TR bots, Leila and a flash bot before parking in LoF of the Mukhtar in suppressive (I managed to do 1 wound to it with the TR bots at least). I formed a quick&dirty plan - spec fired a smoke grenade from my Ghulam link team on the Szal and then dumped about 16 Red Fury shots into it to kill it. I'm of two minds on this. The RF did really well and stopped the big TAG, and then held a flank basically on his own. But really if it had been the Hacker Mukhtar, then he could have hacked the Szal as well (buddy said if I'd had a hacker he would have sent the TAG in the other direction) and possibly moved up to activate a console. So I can't really say which would be better, but I also can't complain about how the RF did. Other highlights: - Spitfire Namurr did REALLY well too, but got speed-bumped by a squad of puppets (didn't realize they were basically 2 wounds each, ugh!) and only died because I suicide-slided her into a console (and then didn't guess the right HVT :( ) - I tried Grotnib's SMG Hakim and he performed admirably, coming in from the side right on top of a decoy and at least getting me a point (I feel a little bad we co-opted Grot's thread...) - Buddy (and I) were almost positive I was in Retreat (which would have been bad for him actually, since it would have cut the game short at like 1-0, or something) but then I realized that Mukhtar+Namurr alone = 79pts and quietly giggled to myself. In the end it was 6-3 Tunguska, which isn't that bad considering I had ONE model left at the end of the game (a flash bot), and the game was a lot of fun.
Don't feel bad buddy; it's great to get a corversation going and to hear from different people's experiences! :) Besides, who wouldn't be flattered by (totally undeservedly) having a unit being called "Grotnib's SMG Hakim"! :D
I think this has kind of just become the Ramah thread, with some direction from whenever Grotnib publishes articles.
You will never get a better catalyst for discussion than someone presenting an opinion in longform that they've thought a bunch about, that others may jump in and disagree
Is this the variation on "Always post a statement of "fact". Someone will disagree almost instantly."?
