I've recently been experimenting with the HI Core myself, and so far I feel that it can defend itself quite well at close ranges, so Killer Hacking support isn't strictly required to make them work! With innately high WIP, BTS and PH, coupled with the almost "must bring" Tinbot and the Sixth Sense provided by the 4+ member Team mean that if the opponent is willing to spend Orders trying to hack them, I'm mostly fine with that! So far I've found that what the Heavy Infantry Core needs is fast flankers and Skirmisher -type pieces that can clear enemy light targets trying to trade up against the Janissaries, or attempting to slow them down. Carmen & Bâtard, Wild Bill, Rafiqs and Fiddler's Bots seem to do the trick nicely! I've actually really fallen in love with the Hortlak Janissaries as the Fireteam's main components - the combination of BS13(+3), Mimetism (-3) and Multispectral Visor L1 means that few enemies can get favorable odds against them, and their weapons have excellent damage output due to being AP (Sniper, SMG) or causing multiple saves (Viral Pistol, Blitzen) and in addition benefitting from BS Attack (+1DMG)! I just played a game of Panic Room against Ariadna and both of my opponents Bears fell to the Hortlak's Viral Pistols (one in ARO at bad range and one up close and personal to a solo Horltak in the end) - with their Vulnerability (Viral) the Ariadnan monsters have to save twice per hit against DMG13 with BTS0, and they can't even trigger Dogged if they get reduced to 0 wounds! Talk about big game hunting...
That makes a lot of sense. It will take some trial and error to get right, but I can see it working. For flanking elements I was thinking of a Spitfire Namurr and Ghulam Doctor Duo on both sides. The neat thing is that they can immobilize HI or TAGs.
Okay, I put some time into these two lists. Maybe they will? This one has a offensive core link. gZQPcmFtYWgtdGFza2ZvcmNlFDRBLikgTkFNVVJSICsgR0hVTEFNgSwBAQoBhSMBAQACgS0BCAADhSMBAQAEgS0BCAAFhSQBAgAGgTQBAgAHhSQBAgAIgTQBAgAJhg0BAQAKgS0BCwA= This one has a defensive core link. Instead of trying to straight up dropping HI or TAGs it tries to immobilize them then pop them. gZQPcmFtYWgtdGFza2ZvcmNlFDRCLikgTkFNVVJSICsgR0hVTEFNgSwCAQoBhSMBAQACgS0BCAADhSMBAQAEgS0BCAAFhSQBBAAGhSQBBAAHgTQBBgAIgTQBBgAJhg0BAQAKgS0BEwACAQGBTgEBAA==
I'm puzzled. Two Namurr Spitfire, two Ghulam Docs, two Janissaries with HMGs / MLs, two Hortlak COC...? Rouhani (I assume, as Janissary Core Fireteam's Doc) and Ghulam Lt. on his own? Honestly - not a list I would come up with! :D
Oh I’m still new to proper list making. lol I make these with the hopes to fielding them to see what happens. Ugh, but life keeps me busy. >_<
Well, it is a good way to test a list :) Just not the way I would ever build one. Mind that it doesn't mean "my way is good, your way is bad", it means you do think outside of my box :P Edit: for benchmarking purposes, this is a varant on my take for a Janissary Core Fireteam as I see it. This is a redo of my 2ed-era "can't think today" list, which I've written for QK back in the day. Spoiler: Janissary Core list Please note - there are two Lt entires, intended to show where a Lt. can be located in this list. ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 10 JANISSARY Heavy Machine Gun / Pistol, Shock CC Weapon. (1.5 | 41) JANISSARY (Doctor [2W]) AP Rifle, Light Shotgun ( | MediKit) / Pistol, Shock CC Weapon. (0 | 38) JANISSARY Boarding Shotgun ( | TinBot: Firewall [-3]) / Pistol, Shock CC Weapon. (0 | 34) JANISSARY (Lieutenant) AP Rifle, Light Shotgun / Pistol, Shock CC Weapon. (0 | 34) JANISSARY Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, Shock CC Weapon. (0 | 33) HAWWA' (Hacker, Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun, D-Charges ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 26) SHIHAB REMOTE Heavy Machine Gun / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (1 | 24) SEKBAN (Lieutenant) AP Rifle, Chain-colt(+1B) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 23) SEKBAN Heavy Rocket Launcher, Chain-colt(+1B) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 21) ODALISQUE (Sixth Sense) Submachine Gun, Nanopulser, Flash Pulse(+1B) / MULTI Pistol, PARA CC Weapon. (0 | 22) 4.5 SWC | 296 Points Open in Infinity Army
Trial and error is the surest way to learn! Let's hope you get a chance to try out your lists in the near future! :)
Very beef cake like. lol Sekbans are the glue of QK. If they ever resculpt them I’ll take a stab with QK. What do you think of replacing the Jannissarie Doctor with Rouhani and covering your flanks with double Sekban Spitfire and Doctor duo teams?
Well, it is an interesting idea, but it counteracts the main advantage of this list - as it would require some actual thinking when using it ;) Actually the N2 and N3 versions of the list had a 3rd Sekban in the Haris (a Doc). More seriously - if I were to reduce the price of the Jann team in a list of this type, I would add cheaper fillers (use Hafza / Odalisques in QK, or Hortlak / characters), not cheaper specialists. One of the big advantages I see in a proper Janissary Core is its durability - and having a very durable Doc definitely helps that. Rouhani isn't as tough as a Janissary Doc. Double Sekban Spitfire and Doc? Interesting, never would have though of that (I'll have to try it some day). I however liked the Sekban Haris specifically as a rear area security and long-range fire support. HRL could do that pretty well in my memory. And I definitely like the Burst bonus of the 3-man team.
You got me laughing. That is a good point. I will toy with that idea on my personal list building notes.
I don’t know if is a good or bad list, but I was laughing with as many F.Pulses I was able to pack into the list. It’s probably more meme than anything. lol gZQPcmFtYWgtdGFza2ZvcmNlAIEsAgEKAYUhAQMAAoUhAQMAA4UhAQMABIUhAQIABYEvAQgABoEvAQgAB4EvAQgACIEtAQEACYEtAQsACoYNAQEAAgUBhIEBkKgAAoE+AQEAA4E+AQEABIE+AQEABTIBAgA= I read your “how to” article on Fire Teams, and used the Ghulam as the Core. Core is placed rear center. Mukhtar Haris takes a flank while second group is placed on the opposite flank in the rear. Carmen is held in reserves. Each Fire Team has a Doctor. I am also noticing Ramah has an abundance of TAGs, Remotes, and Engineers. I have always focused on its high armor troops, but an “Engineer” list could be interesting for experiment purposes.
I think it would be better if you posted actual lists, even if hidden under a spoiler tab. Easier on the eyes ;) Spoiler: That's what you meant: Ramah Taskforce ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 1 10 MUKHTAR (Forward Observer) Rifle, Light Shotgun, Flash Pulse, D-Charges / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 27) MUKHTAR (Forward Observer) Rifle, Light Shotgun, Flash Pulse, D-Charges / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 27) MUKHTAR (Forward Observer) Rifle, Light Shotgun, Flash Pulse, D-Charges / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 27) MUKHTAR (Doctor [+3]) Boarding Shotgun ( | MediKit) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 31) KHAWARIJ (Forward Observer) Mk12, Flash Pulse / Pistol, AP + Shock CC Weapon. (0.5 | 34) KHAWARIJ (Forward Observer) Mk12, Flash Pulse / Pistol, AP + Shock CC Weapon. (0.5 | 34) KHAWARIJ (Forward Observer) Mk12, Flash Pulse / Pistol, AP + Shock CC Weapon. (0.5 | 34) GHULAM Rifle, Light Shotgun / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 11) GHULAM (Lieutenant) Rifle, Light Shotgun / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 11) ROUHANI Submachine Gun, Flash Pulse / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 21) GROUP 2 3 2 1 CARMEN Chain Rifle(+1B), Smoke Grenades / Heavy Pistol(+1B), DA CC Weapon. (0 | 17) BÂTARD Trench-Hammer, AP CC Weapon. (0 | 5) FANOUS REMOTE Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 7) FANOUS REMOTE Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 7) FANOUS REMOTE Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 7) WARCOR (Sixth Sense) Flash Pulse / Stun Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 3) 1.5 SWC | 298 Points Open in Infinity Army My take on it: it is difficult to tell who is in which fireteam. A matter of presentation of the list composition. an abundance of Forward Observers. Not a bad thing on its own, but what is the purpose? No support weapons with high Burst and / or long range. Mk12 is sorta-kinda in that department (especially on a Khawarij in a Core), but I'd be afraid it won't do the job well enough on its own. No "problem solver" as I call it - a model that could take out enemy problem piece and open your fireteam an avenue of approach (I consider Camouflage or Aerial Deployment models to fit that bill, as they have a chance to maneuver to the required position on table relatively easily. Only 1 active model in Group #2. What do you intend to do with Group #2 once Carmen is down? I'd suggest scrapping the 3rd Fanous and the WarCor, and putting there a Gulam FO: you still get that Flashpulse ARO (albeit a less effective one, due to lack of Mimetism) and a Regular Order to power Carmen in the 1st round. But once she goes down, you still have a model you could pour those 3 Regular Orders into, and maybe take a lucky shot or reach an Objective (that is, unless you want to make some more changes to the list) Spoiler: I went one step furhter here: Ramah Taskforce ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 1 10 MUKHTAR (Forward Observer) Rifle, Light Shotgun, Flash Pulse, D-Charges / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 27) MUKHTAR (Doctor [+3]) Boarding Shotgun ( | MediKit) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 31) MUKHTAR Viral Rifle, Nanopulser(+1B) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 30) KHAWARIJ Heavy Rocket Launcher, Light Shotgun / Pistol, AP + Shock CC Weapon. (1 | 30) KHAWARIJ (Forward Observer) Mk12, Flash Pulse / Pistol, AP + Shock CC Weapon. (0.5 | 34) KHAWARIJ (Forward Observer) Mk12, Flash Pulse / Pistol, AP + Shock CC Weapon. (0.5 | 34) GHULAM Rifle, Light Shotgun / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 11) GHULAM (Lieutenant) Rifle, Light Shotgun / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 11) MUKHTAR (Forward Observer) Rifle, Light Shotgun, Flash Pulse, D-Charges / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 27) ROUHANI Submachine Gun, Flash Pulse / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 21) GROUP 2 3 1 1 CARMEN Chain Rifle(+1B), Smoke Grenades / Heavy Pistol(+1B), DA CC Weapon. (0 | 17) BÂTARD Trench-Hammer, AP CC Weapon. (0 | 5) FANOUS REMOTE Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 7) FANOUS REMOTE Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 7) GHULAM (Forward Observer) Rifle, Light Shotgun, Flash Pulse / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 12) 2 SWC | 299 Points Open in Infinity Army The Muktar Haris got a Viral Rifle. Useful for putting things down. Alternative would be getting Leila Sharif there, and saving some points (plus, getting a Marksman Rifle) - but Leila is not as durable as a Muktar, plus no +4" deployment, whch may, in some situations, make for a difference. So, since you wanted it this way, let's keep it a pure Muktar crew there. The Ghulam Core swapped out a Mk12 Khawarij for a HRL one. Saved us 4pts, and brought a much-needed long-range weapon with Template capability. There's still a heap of SWC free to spend! I was tempted to swap one more for a Spitfire. Same cost as a FO Mk12, more Burst, and Shock Ammo. But you seem to like having spare Specialist in the team, and the FO Khawarijs were the two left.
I don’t know how to post lists in the hidden box. I’ll need to toy with the buttons to figure it out. But, I completely agree it’s easier to see it when it’s posted as such. I like how you broke down my list into areas that will come up in the play. I spent a lot of time working on HB lists that address a lot of those points, but RTF does lack some easy answers to your posed problems with the list. Clearly I still need to understand how to best use RTF. The abundance of FOs was just to have something in the reactive turn. But, as you said, there is no real active turn problem solver. What I will most likely do is read up on RTF BatReps and see what I can learn of of those before taking another stab at RTF list building. But, thank you for your advice it’s very much appreciated! :D
How do you feel about the Beasthunter profile? It's irregular and only AVA1, but I think it might look good? I think it looks nice because it has some decent ARO weapons, is sorta cheap, and gives us more options in the camouflage shell game other than "is it a landmine?"
IMO Beasthunter is an interesting idea, one to be tested as soon as I have a list in which I can afford that. Pros: inexpensive (9 or 15 pts) Forward Deployed Camouflage in the 15pts variant Stealthy Good Close Combat ability Superjump to give it an edge in mobility. Cons: not a Specialist lousy at shooting - Tactical Bow or Panzerfaust lack the general utility (and the chance of winning FtF) of a Rifle or Shotgun. All in all, being Irregular is not a big downside in this case. You're likely to move it forward early in the game, and try neutralising important enemy targets. Probably, the Beasthunter won't survive the raid - but an important enemy model has a good chance of going down with it. That DAM 15 DA CCW is no joke. So, you won't be missing that Order much either way. Nearest (and only) competitior in Ramah is a Touareg, and Touaregs are very different (also, at leat twice that expensive). They are Regular, decent gunfighters (Shothuns and Rifles. Their BS 11 is nothing special, but Mimetism -6 helps significantly), have high--class Specialists (WIP 15 Hacekrs and Doctors +3), they are capable of Hidden Deployment. Touaregs are an expensive, precise tool in my eyes. Beasthunters are a cheap, disposable club. Both are potentially useful.
I for one feel extremely good about the Beasthunter being included in RTF! The one I'm most excited about is the Camouflage/Forward Deployment one, as it's one of the few types of units we've been lacking so far: a cheap, Camoulfaged pseudo-Infiltrator, who can be really annoying to deal with on the opponent's active turn, but still dangerous enough on it's active turn that it can't be ignored either! I envision the Beasthunter buying crucial time for the rest of the RTF team by blocking important an enemy attack vector and threatening trading up with his/her Heavy Flamethrower, and while the Beasthunter is very far from reliable as an attack piece, he/she can force the opponent into making bad choices on the ARO too... And if nothing else, there's always the possibility of dropping Mines all over the place! All in all, from a purely theoretical standpoint, a great addition that does help the Sectorial become even stronger in 2022!
I don't think it is more difficult to deal with in opponent's active turn than any other Camouflage. Discover it, shooti it down - especially if you don't have to worry about a long-ranged Panzerfaust ARO. But for the points it costs, that's acceptable.
I played a little with RTF and need to test more. But for reactive turn, i think to try: Shihab: with ava 2. Hmg at full rof. And have cheap engineer for repair. Hortlak AP Sniper. A Sniper with msv. Zayedan: had marskmanship, with a Sniper rifle or missile. Maybe both in a haris. Hope this helps. Cheers.
Most Camouflaged models aren't packing Heavy Flamethrowers, so if (and when) the RTF can player can force the opponent to engage the Beasthunter at close ranges he/she is a dangerous model to take on... The Panzerfaust also makes the Beasthunter a credible threat even at longer ranges - as such he/she does impose several "catastrophic failure state possibilities" to the opponent (Flamer causing several wounds or the Beasthunter dodging into melee at close ranges, Panzerfaust getting a lucky hit a longer range), so it's difficult to cost effectively take them out! If my opponent is willing to spend several Orders to maneuver to a position from which to safely discover and shoot down my 15 point model - be my guest! There's still the chance that the opponent fails their discover or that the Panzerfaust actually hits... Another thing that's working in the Beasthunters' advatange are the Blizzard Zones in Missions that incorporate them - they provide the mercenary operative with +1'' to their first MOV (as does the Antarctic Terrain condition), and they offer an excellent place to hunker down in for the reactive turn by imposing the Saturation and Low-Visibility Zone penalties on models attacking the Beasthunter!
