Unless they come charging into my hobby shop with red robes flapping and pointy hats on, I don't see how they can stop me.
I must admit that when I head that CB wanted to "move forward the fluff" I thought they wanted to just split JSA and YJ. Now I'm actually considering that they want to make YJ an antagonist faction. That'll teach ya! Yeah, as the resident Yu Jing of my group, I'll kindly excuse myself from any BG talks for a while. It's either that or "I can't hear your complaints over the lament of dead children"
Exactly that! As I've said in another thread I'll just pretend my guys were off-planet, hunting down some criminals or fighting on paradiso whilst the uprising got out of hand. When I've started I imagined my ISS squad to be a cool but somewhat ruthless counter-terrorist police force and not merciless butchers of innocents. I even bought the female Kempeitei to use as Ashcroft proxy (that was about a week before Uprising was announced). So she's a japanese bounty hunter in long time service of the State and therefore trustworthy or something (this idea becomes a bit unrealistic the more fluff CB releases these days, but hey). That saying I'm not angry, there are enough problems in real life, no need to have my hobby be one of them, BUT that is NOT my Yu Jing.
Also of note, the latest event fluff only talks about the yuanduan division, so they seem to be the 'bad' army, in some sense. This emperor just needs to fall down some stairs and have his replacement run them up on charges. :/
Just because one part of the fluff is going one way doesn't mean the whole faction is going that way. You can also headcannon any of this. These are your dudes so they can be as good or evil as you want. For some of you I hope the sickness you feels pass and I hope you don't judge yourself too harshly because clearly playing a faction that has a dark side means you fully endorse those actions and wish to fulfill them yourselves, you monsters.
What an engaging post hecaton. You raise some super valid points. Bostria made special mention of the fact. And he's made comments to the effect of not liking when players make list choices like that (ie. Choosing toku over gongcheng for the discount and courage). Look you can be bitter and cynical all you like, but spare us on the delusion of being some kind of Herald of truth on some conspiracy of CB's corporate greed.
Maybe CB shouldn't design units to be nigh identical, with one being obviously better at its role (ie, same WIP, Courage, oh no(!) -1BS?!?!) (Actually, is the BS even different?) I mean, there's literally no difference between them besides 1BS, Courage and a point. The vast majority of people can easily recognise that BS10->11 is just not important on a support model, especially a fragile LI - that's why so many people ignored the Gongcheng/Mech Engineer: because CB made it a no fucking brainer! Players shouldn't be using the clearly better option!
You've really flown past the point here Kallas. They recognise that and removed the option. It was more people thought it was cold CB didn't consider people who chose tokusetsu butai to playing JSA units... Because they realised most people were deciding based on exactly what you posted, not on the theme of having JSA troops. Only that the most optimal choice happened to have a JSA uniform.
Where did he make that statement? And as for the latter point, sucks to be him, I guess? If he doesn't want people to play competitively, then he's gonna have a hard time.
If they didn't game their own points system with Fireteam-capable Frenzy/Impetuous troops and SMGs I'd take that more seriously.
If Uprising was about stopping people optimising a list, then it'd be barbaric overkill. CB also said that people didn't use a bunch of JSA profiles, which is pretty much debunked by some relatively simple deduction (either that, or they manipulated the data/question to suit the ends). How many players, of many games, make purchases based on fluff? How many based on gameplay? And on aesthetics? Often they're intertwined, but I'd hazard a guess that gameplay and aesthetic are more important to a larger proportion of the playerbase. Fluff-first players are great, but they tend not to be the largest portion, especially not in a game such as Infinity which has/had a great emphasis on model balance, as well as tournament/organised play.
Wow. Just WOW. That concept is moronic if true. Who's gonna be next on the cutting board? Fusiliers in MO so they pay those 3 points for a combi spec. sergeant instead? Mutts and Kuang-shi? Every other sub-par cheerleader or every flash pulse 8pts bot?I worry for tunguska and their securitatae Come on, if you wanna delete the cheap cheerleaders from your game maybe you should also revise the concept altogether. Man, both celestial guard AND zhanshis bring nothing to the table(twintail CG gal doesn't count). Tokusetsu doc/eng are used instead of the zhanshi ones because of the two... because there is no reason to pay 2 points more for the same piece. Thank god we don't have a fluff bunny in our group, it's one of the reasons I left 40k.
Quoted for double-truth. CB doesn't get to pass the buck here. They can't get angry that folks aren't using Zhanshi (because they made them noticeably inefficient and then refused to fix the mistake for over a decade) and then turn around an give Frenzy discounts, cheap chain rifle profiles, and other super-obvious efficiency kludges that exist in their super top-secret point system (that occasionally gives out free weapons and equipment, but can't be arsed to round down on Zhanshi instead of up). Either way, if CB pulled the Uprising to get me to use Zhanshi/Mech-engineers/Yisheng... Well, mission failed. Not only has the gutting of vanilla made me less likely to play them at all (regardless of the line troopers I'd be using), but I'm also not really feeling ISS either (fun fact: this is now an initialism for Indistinguishable from the SS, tell your friends!). If they wanted me to use the Zhanshi, then instead of taking away the first obvious and superior choice (but not the only one... so I guess the ISS are leaving next so vanilla can't use Kuang Shi. Perhaps they're seceding because they no longer want to be associated with the heinous war crimes committed by Yu Jing, those monsters) they should have, oh, I don't know rounded down. *cough*
I found a good diorama of the Yuandun on their way to kuraimori, going over some sound tactical choices on way. Do not think I will see any smart moves from these guys. As for using Tokusetsu's, the, main reason is the mini is one of my favourites since I started and was painted for me by my first evert opponent. It has massive sentimental value. Keisotsu hacker is cheaper than a zanshi but it is also the frist infinity mini I ever painted. Looks terrible next my current stuff but I never wanted to redo it and lose the personality I had built around him in my head cannon.
Wow, so my basement drains overflow and I miss so much good discussion! Where to begin? (Ain’t going to do quotes, cause that would make my post three pages long.) Quick disclaimer: I love Infinity, but I’m not a CB fanboy – in fact I’ve been pretty vocal about how I think they’ve screwed the pooch lately. And that will continue – while I think they have a wonderful game and IP, I also think they’ve started to mismanage it horribly lately. So where to begin: Regarding Kuang Shi: Adding re-purposed Sepsitorization victims to the candidates is just fine (actually interesting) to me – as long as you don’t try to turn the IS into a bunch of Choir Boys. I enjoy Infinity’s mature and nuanced backstory almost as much as its mature and nuanced gameplay. And regarding who the Kuang Shi are – a good question. Mine are mostly violent and unrepentant Triad members (since they caused the “modern” IS to be created in the first place,) combined with unredeemable recidivists (i.e. pedophiles and serial killers – let’s see someone try to defend them, “smiley face”) along with a smattering of “political prisoners” (people trying to start a rebellion just as the CA have arrived – what a great idea!) – all of whom have been duly tried and convicted by a YJ court of law. (And please remember, I understand that what constitutes “law” varies wildly over time and geography – but our little tabletop game is also not designed to be a “fair courtroom simulator," or any kind of courtroom simulator actually.) Not a “nice” situation by any means, but one which is entirely believable to me. COIN: As a specific reply to say, a former member of the U.S. Naval Service who has put his boots on the ground in Iraq – been there, done that, got the t-shirts too (though I was with the other, dumber half of the Department of the Navy.) So my boots are just as sandy (and salty) as yours are, and I understand the challenges and “joys” of counter-insurgency (COIN) as well – no lectures necessary, brother. And I also get that public relations are important in total war too – so, say, if your boomer had nuked tens of thousands of people in the USSR/Russia or the PRC back in the day, we’d have spun you and your crew as “heroes” (just like the crew of the Enola Gay) vice war criminals who had incinerated innocents – provided we won of course. And if someone serving in your boomer had gone all “psycho-Crane” – well, a guy like me would have made them “go away,” pronto, to keep him/her from interfering with the PR. That’s life in the big leagues. Psycho-Crane: So was he a CA plot (a Sepsitorized Crane,) just bad writing, or an example of good writing (i.e. even highly trained folks snap under these circumstances.) I dunno. I think the CA plot angle would be fascinating, but is also highly unlikely given CB’s most recent efforts – so I’m going to have to go with CB (once again) screwing the pooch. (Though if this was all a way of turning a PTSD’ed out “psycho-Crane” into a Kuang Shi “character” – a repentant KS who retains some level of his/her prior Crane training, well, that would be brilliant IMO. But those of you who’ve been around here longer than me know better whether CG is up to this level of writing.) So in closing let me say this – my IS, repeat my IS (we’re in head-canon territory here,) are not, repeat NOT “butchers” of innocents – they may do the dirty deeds that need to be done, but those deeds need to be done. Now enough about IS, Corvus Belli, and give us Yu Jing’s Invincible Army – and the tales of heroism (on behalf of the entire Human Sphere) that these skilled, brave and self-sacrificing men and women are capable of while fighting the CA on Paradiso! (Quick suggestion – whoever’s in charge of the IA refuses/has no need of making use of Kuang Shi or Wu Ming, cause they’re way too cool for that.) Drop mic, thread/rant over, but what a great discussion!
Well I was wrong. CB really is pushing hard with Yu Jing being evil. They've gone full capellan confederation now. Where no action is too extreme if its to protect the state.
Around minute 29 of the adepticon presentation. "most people take tokusetsu because its 1pt cheaper than zhanshi" The rest is me largely reading into the tone of that, as being many lists were largely chinese with like the token tokusetsu and keisotsu. Which aligns with my experience of yu jing lists. I don't think Bostria has any issue with competitive play. He just recognises that they will play with whatever is optimised, and if it changes they will adapt or if something better comes along, they will drop the old stuff. Simple deduction being largely anecdotal and biased interpretation of a screenshot of data? You're making a bunch of presumptions to counter what the dude who actually has the data, and your main point of support is "hes probably lying". The point was, people used a bunch of JSA profiles largely because they were optimised. Optimisation changes so CB didn't think people would throw a shitfit when they removed some optimised profiles. This was probably a mistake, but I can see why they made that conclusion. They can't exactly press undo at this stage. No, the point here is people taking JSA profiles (according to the stats) looked to be min-maxing and CB didn't think minmaxers would be that put out by the changes. Clearly they underestimated the level of butthurt gamers can get. This is just part of a larger number of reasons. If you guys want to be intentionally obtuse about it, don't try to look smart when you focus down the flaws of a single reason.
Ah. So speculation then. If someone says the data says something, but won't show you the data or how they arrived at their conclusion, it's reasonable to be suspicious. Gee, why would people be upset when their indignation is called out as "butthurt"? Maybe they feel disrespected? "Min-maxers" (i.e. anyone who makes an honest attempt at winning tournament games) tend to get upset when factions aren't treated evenly. Yu Jing got nerfed, and it's nice that you're finally admitting it.
