The provided examples are L1... I think there are no linkable with FD 2+ (well, there are what, only the kanren as FD 2+?), but we have Mechanized Deployment for some PanO troops that have G:Synchro (Pathfinder, for example), and the Montesa is a Mec. Deplo troop with Duo. I doubt we will see Haris or Core troops that start in the middle of the table or around it... but it would be quite the view if a Halqa Core were to show up with the Khanate XD
I can't see a link of 3 or more being able to deploy forward like that as well. Especially one with mimetisim.
How is three FD2 Tigers (or similar) worse than 3 Mech-Dep Montessa? Limit it to Core and AVA4 if you want (but that's more about BS17 LGL that basically starts in it's +3 Range). Yu Jing ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 5 TIGER SOLDIER Hacker (Assault Hacking Device) Combi Rifle + Light Flamethrower / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 33) TIGER SOLDIER Spitfire / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 32) TIGER SOLDIER MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 34) TIGER SOLDIER Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 25) TIGER SOLDIER Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 25) 3.5 SWC | 149 Points Open in Infinity Army That's half your list in the midfield from T1. I'd suicide Warbands or Hardcases into that all day. It's good but hardly gamebreaking.
I think the concern is that by placing a core link that far up the table on turn 1 and going first, it'll let it get into your opponent's lines too quickly and cause too much damage, especially when it has stats that are on the better end of the spectrum.
There may be 3 but only 2 can duo link. And those three at minimum cost almost as much as those 5 Tigers. The tigers could also break the link and go into suppression. With Mimeitisim that's pretty good. The Tigers have a serious advantage over those Montessa I think. Too good. Duo is a good link but t's not as serious as a five man.
Yeah... someone said they could core, I didn't check. Tbh a Core of 4 Montessa seems playable (or rather no less playable than a lone LGL Montessa and an actual support list). Honestly re: the Suppression Fire tactic. Ryuken already do that. And yes, I know only 2 not 5. But it seems playable against. If going first and deployed aggressively it's stupid vulnerable to something as simple as a Superior Infiltrated Minelayer (and if deployed badly, there's not even a requirement to Sup Inf). If going second and deployed aggressively, it's a relatively easy way to attack your opponent's primary attack unit and his order pool at the same time. It's not going to happen. But I don't see why it's game breaking.
How is suppression tactics an issue when there's been infiltrators with TO camo who have been able to do this en masse for a very long time now (some of them with AP mines and minelayer)? Not to mention that if I were to do that I'd rather take ODD over Mimetism of Myrmidons or Ryuken. I still don't think we're discussing Tigers in any shape or form (and if they can't be Leopards because that's taken, @Section9 , then let's call them Boas for maximum confusion!)
We're not. We're clearly discussing a Nomad unit. [emoji14] I still think it's an interesting way to play with AD in a future ITS Season. 1. Give all Troopers with AD4+ AD/Forward Deployment 2 2. Give all regular MI AD that don't AD but deploy regularly Fireteam Core I still think the better option for IA would be a Raiden replacement rather than messing with Tigers.
(I like it!) With the Shooting Star, I'm not sure the Invincible Army will get Tigers! Assuming the Shooting Star is basically a Zuyong with AD4 and Mimetism, it should only cost about 35 points for the Combirifle version. (Problem is, if it's that cheap, I'm not sure I'd take Tigers ever again in Vanilla! Second problem is that Invincible Army is already points-tight for getting even 9 orders in a list, so another 30+ point unit isn't good.) For a not-Raiden, could we do a new REM? Basic Yaokong chassis, Limited Camo and the ML?
Just because there's already one AD unit doesn't mean you can't have another... Also, slapping mimetism on it would be the most boring thing ever since mimetism is showing up on newer units more often. Let's not be PanO and take the most boring route. I really liked the idea of giving the Shooting Star Albedo. Gives it something other AD units don't have and make it something more then an up-armored and up-gunned Tiger (read: boring). Being a AD HI is already going to make it expensive. An AD HI should be pricey (even though everyone wants a bargain HI nowadays). To the last point. IA is going to need a cheap order providing unit. Either the Zhanshi, a new line infantry MI, or getting netrods (or a YJ analogue). Making the full HI list is going to be hard and you need to think about what you'll be bringing along.
AD4 Zuyong is 33pts. If you assume Shanji instead you're at 39pts even if you lose the LFT and 1ARM. And there's no reason not to expect AD4 to scale with price. So I'd expect a vanilla no-frilps Combi Rifle profile to be ~40pts. That leaves more than sufficient room for Tigers. Particularly if you assume no DTWs (2W AD DTW is completely obnoxious) and no/Limited specialists. Combi/Multi, BSG and Spitfire is what I'd expect. And maybe an AHD.
Raiden replacement? Let me plug the Medium Infantry basic trooper profile again! Basically, having a low-BS (11) medium infantry with Limited Camo and Heavy Rocket Launcher could provide a similar effect, albeit at lower efficiency than the Raiden. While it'd be significantly cheaper (estimating roughly 17 points), the SWC cost would still keep them in line. This would also reinforce the idea that the stars of the show are the HI while the MI are there for support. Also, unless we get this MI, which would be an ideal place for a sniper, I do think Zuyong should get sniper rifle profile.
AD4 is 7 points? Where'd we figure that from? I was surprised to see that Zuyong are almost identical to Tigers, statwise and pointswise. Tigers are +1WIP (and AD4+Mimetism), while Zuyong are +1ARM, +3BTS, and +1W (and Kinematica L1), all for 1 point more (comparing boarding shotgun versions). [ edit: added the +1W ] I think I'd rather the Zuyong have a Mk12, which basically has Marksman Rifle range bands with DAM15. Honestly makes more sense to me to have a DMR instead of the outright sniper, but power armor can handle the recoil of the Mk12 so might as well use the bigger gun.
Re: Tiger's cost. So 5-6pts. ZY Combi is 27. So 32-33 with AD. I think towards the upper end. Supposing that it's actually higher on a profile that's above 30pts before AD seems reasonable. Diomedes is the only example I know of, and I haven't broken his points down. But we know other skills scale with the value of the unit they're on. That's why I'd expect to see Combi Rifle Shooting Stars at around 40pts without Mimmetism. I think Daofei without Camo and Infil but with AD:4 instead is a decent model.
AD4 on HI might be more expensive. I don't think that's the same thing at all. The MSR Zuyong would be competing with the Missile Launcher, while the MK12's biggest profile competitor is the HMG. On Zuyong with reduced-SWC HMG, I don't think Mk12 makes as much sense as it would on, say, Shang-Ji where the Spitfire profile is mostly an SWC dump but an SWC-free Mk12 might complement the unit better. What I'm getting at with Zuyong is for the unit to embrace the basic-line-troop schtick and have the same set of weapon options as you'd find on Zhanshi - which means they're missing Hacker and Sniper. Main point, however, is I'd like to see a basic MI troop that's strongly geared towards support. While having such a troop form a core defensive link is standard in sectorials - I'm hoping for the opposite. The challenge is to make them cheap enough to fill points, but supportive enough to be worth taking on their own merits. This means ditching the classic weapon distributions of CG or Zhanshi. I'm thinking close to Grunt stats, but no Shock Immunity, which is traded for +1 WIP and possibly BTS. Limited Camo + SMG + HRL (est 17/1,5) Hacking Devise + SMG (est 17/0,5) Mimetism + Breaker Sniper Rifle (est 20/1) and only sniper in sectorial Engineer + SMG + Adhesive Launcher + D-charges (est 14/0) Minelayer + SMG + Chain Rifle (est 12/0,5) Forwards Observer + DepRep + SMG (est 11/0) No LT, no fireteams. All-star of lone wolf cheap profiles (though none have forward deployment of any kind). Still might need a functional, spammable, profile in the sub-14 bracket that isn't a specialist and frankly the Engineer profile might be better off dropping the Engineer skill and 3 points with it. Yeah, it's abusing the hell out of the cheapness of SMGs (aka personal defense weapons)
Bugger. Must stop posting at 2am... quite likely, though I note that a Gao-Tarsos is about the same price as a Tiger. Ah, gotcha. I'd like to add an LGL to the list of 'missing' things, but the bare minimum is definitely Hacker and Sniper. Hrm. barring the engineer profile (because I want Zuyong Doc and Engineer, not included in Zuyong AVA, but possibly linkable with Zuyong), would a new variety of REMs be acceptable to you, instead?
