1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

The future of Yu Jing

Discussion in 'Yu Jing' started by Greysturm, Apr 24, 2018.

  1. Varsovian

    Varsovian Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2018
    Messages:
    510
    Likes Received:
    385
    Okay, question: who the heck is PsychoCrane? Did I miss something in the book?
     
  2. Aldo

    Aldo Spare 15

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    1,216
    Likes Received:
    1,832
    The Crane Agent screaming at a news reporter about how many japanese he's killed. His quote was used as promotional material and achieved much hate.

    [​IMG]
     
  3. Shiwen

    Shiwen Commissar, Yu Jing Political Work Department

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2017
    Messages:
    404
    Likes Received:
    1,159
    It is just that last line, Agent Chung-yao. Even right up until then you were holding it together, still in line with all you were taught at The Center on Tie Heng. Finish with "this is what the Kempeitai have wrought!", "This is the true future the Kuge offer you!", and we would not be where we are.

    But you did not. An error which demands the harshest correction.
     
  4. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    5,715
    Likes Received:
    6,472
    Sure you can. What do you think the whole ALIVE schtick was about last season? Bit and friends fighting to reveal information censored by various nations in regards to the CA and their activities on Paradiso. One of the long running plot points of Infinity is how unaware the public is of how close they are to annihilation by the CA, thanks to political powers suppressing and censoring that information. The general public is unaware of how badly outmatched by the CA humanity is and how imperative it is for the Human Sphere to cohesively band together to fight back.

    Your argument still makes no sense. ISIS is/was busy murdering their way through a chunk of the middle east. Should we behave like PsychoCrane and level entire cities and their populace into the ground to quell that insurgency? Of course not, that's Trump tier insanity. Nobody besides a large, balding, orange idiot would think that's a good plan and even he hasn't tried to pull this stunt yet.

    I cannot stress that last point enough. The only way you can reconcile YJ's behaviour is to embrace this utterly insane view point.

    You want to bring up activist violence. Take the racially charge violence erupting in the US often culminating in the targeted shootings of Police Officers in places like Baton Rouge. Your logic dictates the correct response to quell this behaviour is for the police to threaten they will go out and shoot all of the African American populace, and level their cities into mass graves.

    I'm not sure how a rational human being can actually try to defend this as a logical response. It takes about 5 seconds of debating the issue with common sense to come to the conclusion of "nah, that would probably make the situation alot worse and everyone would hate us even more."


    Yes. We are talking about a highly trained, elite, counter insurgency group, from a culture built upon insurgency and therefor knows how to stop them. This is what they have built a career in not screwing up. This isn't "mistakes happen" this is "I've just done what everyone knows you should never, ever, ever do." You're talking about an agent who's daily job is to censor and suppress this kind of information from being leaked by insurgents to enemies, you're suggesting he then turns around, films some of his own and then broadcasts it to the human sphere?

    You'd be better off trying to argue he's a Shavaasti impersonator trying to drive a wedge between human factions or something equally outlandish and stupid as that.

    The only people who think Gutier's writing isn't out of touch are those with a fairly naive take on the world.
     
    #44 Triumph, Apr 25, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2018
    emperor26 and Kallas like this.
  5. Fyeya

    Fyeya Yakitori over a light flamethrower

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2018
    Messages:
    405
    Likes Received:
    699
    Or a different opinion.

    Try and remain courteous instead of hostile, so this thread doesn't also get closed.
     
  6. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    5,715
    Likes Received:
    6,472
    That isn't hostile. Naive is the correct adjective here. Gutier's handling of uprising is good, unless you have a modicum of understanding about how nations handle or combat insurgent behaviour and have spent even a small amount of time learning about modern Chinese history.

    If you've done this then none of it really makes any sense at all and it's just facepalm inducing.
     
  7. Varsovian

    Varsovian Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2018
    Messages:
    510
    Likes Received:
    385
    I really don't agree. I could point out to real-life examples from very modern history that show that yes, when hurt, even a rational state can go into the anger-fueled "stupid evil" mode. I'm afraid that would verge too much into politics, though...

    So, maybe an older example: the Boxer Rebellion. Look how awful both sides of the conflict were... The Boxers might've had some point about the Western nations subjugating China - but it led to them killing innocent civilians. And the Western intervention that followed? They came and not only stopped the Boxers, but they committed a lot of atrocities, too.

    Another example? The war crimes of the Allies during WWII...

    Overall? Yes, rationally speaking, YJ's conduct during the war was stupid. But I'll reiterate: when hate and hurt pride flare, even the governments can do stupid and / or immoral things. And, certainly, their agents can do stupid and immoral things.

    EDIT: On the other hand, I'm not saying that I *like* the way CB / Gutier portrayed this war. Uprising's story is, mostly, believable - the problem is that it *does* make the YJ seem like a really unpleasant faction to play. I can see a few possibilities how a YJ vs. Japan war could've go - and CB went with the most depressing scenario. Again, believeable (sadly), but it does hurt the YJ as a playable faction, IMHO.
     
    Pen-dragon likes this.
  8. Dude

    Dude Master in training

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2017
    Messages:
    563
    Likes Received:
    899
    This thread is supposed to be about the future of Yu Jing.
     
  9. Fyeya

    Fyeya Yakitori over a light flamethrower

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2018
    Messages:
    405
    Likes Received:
    699
    Except the massive list of historical incidences of violent slaughter of civilians, and even bombing the shit out of a civilian populace to induce surrender. It has worked sometimes, and failed sometimes. Point being, trying to say everyone always does it right, that governments don't screw up on massive scales... seriously unrealistic.

    History is often stranger than fiction, people make mistakes that in hindsight are obvious, but at the moment seemed 'reasonable' and that's the thing, acting like there is only one 'reasonable' way for things to be is naive in itself.

    That's why I don't mind as much - it is just my hope that Yu Jing gets to do a little bit of learning and possibly some payback on Pan-O.
     
  10. Varsovian

    Varsovian Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2018
    Messages:
    510
    Likes Received:
    385
    What I hope to see is some sort of expanded account of the events, one that would show what went on the YJ government's side of things - one that would balance things a little. I'd like to read on more moderate YJ officials who started to realize that things were getting out of hand, trying to reign in the atrocities committed by the more fanatical troops. I'd like to see a quiet punishment dealt on the idiots who decided to blew that dam and flood the whole city... Also, the Jade Emperor personally sending PsychoCrane to the Kuang Shi treatment :)

    Also, some mention of the Japanese atrocities. Because I can't imagine they didn't happen.
     
    Furiat and Shiwen like this.
  11. Aldo

    Aldo Spare 15

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    1,216
    Likes Received:
    1,832
    I'd rather they ran a tupid veil over this whole shitshow.

    For the most cynical of us, tho, I bring hope.
    Invincible Army is gonna be a big sales posterboy so they are going to be portrayed in a positive light.

    The quality of their fluff is going to be on the eye of the beholder, but basic greed- I mean marketing sense says that your big sales posterboy has to look good.
     
    Space Ghost likes this.
  12. banthafodder

    banthafodder Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2018
    Messages:
    203
    Likes Received:
    445
    It's kind of hard to see the future when we haven't been given anything to grasp on. With the removal of JSA profiles, we lost the background those profiles provided. We don't know how Uprising affected the rest.

    There is just this big black hole about the events of Uprising from the side of Yu Jing and what the future holds for the faction.

    All we've got is some vague promises and hearsay, which is a recipe for things to fester.
     
    Kallas likes this.
  13. Fyeya

    Fyeya Yakitori over a light flamethrower

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2018
    Messages:
    405
    Likes Received:
    699
    Also, for anyone saying the government would be smarter than Uprising... look at WW1.

    That's a thing that happened, and my word is it proof that there is no depth of stupidity to which humanity will not sink.

    My hope is that there is a propaganda shift in YJ to try and show themselves as defenders, doing what needs doing, so they can win over other factions and call in favors from people like ariadna to regain lost ground.

    Maybe they can call on Pan-O to do more on Paradiso since Pan-O helped cost them land. I'd like YJ to take a 'write it off' approach and look to profit from the defeat in future to get even.
     
    Flipswitch, Death and Kallas like this.
  14. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    12,018
    Likes Received:
    15,302
    No, it's about the game, it's about how CB is managing expectations and about how they timing things. They might have expected Yu Jing to come off better than 45% win rate in the official campaign while everyone else managed 51 to 55% when they started planning this two years ago. They might have expected Yu Jing to have managed to secure some allies, but PR disaster happened and people flung the dirty part of the fluff around like a weapon they weren't trained to use.
    At the tail end of all this, CB still decided to push forward, by delivering a product that presented the faction below the players' expectations, reduced the tactical options, and added more dirty laundry for people to way around like a 10-year old kid who's just found a condom and thinks it's the funniest thing ever. It's basically stacking everything that the faction's players didn't need right now on top of each other. I swear this would have been received a whole hell of a lot better if it had come at the tail end of finishing first or second in Wotan instead of essentially dead last.
    The timing couldn't be worse, except they also managed to deliver the news that the next new thing for the faction is going to be delayed a year because of it.

    So yeah, while I'd like to look forward, there's plenty about Uprising that you can't just logic your way out of because however you twist and turn it, it's going to be bad and mismanaged.
     
    Kallas, Aldo, Hecaton and 1 other person like this.
  15. Fyeya

    Fyeya Yakitori over a light flamethrower

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2018
    Messages:
    405
    Likes Received:
    699
    Bingo - I'm addressing fluff anger, not business anger. I don't like the business side of what they did, but the fluff side is what it is. :/
     
  16. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    12,018
    Likes Received:
    15,302
    Well, that's the thing, right? It would have played more to people's expectations of the faction if the faction would have performed their schtick better. CB saw to it that they bungled it after the fluff as it already is was contributing to the faction bungling the international campaign. The two sides of that anger intertwine - meaning that while it can be reasoned that Yu Jing might've let this one slip, put into context with how things have turned out lately CB hasn't built up the faction's "sure" capital enough to let them do that.
    The risk is that they're going to have to seriously stack advantages in the next online campaign in Yu Jing's favour to even be able to keep the fluff they want to build afloat, and I don't think many players really want that.
     
    jj.konko and Kallas like this.
  17. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    7,205
    Likes Received:
    6,535
    They're also making a statement - there are factions that matter in the campaign, heroes and villains, and Yu Jing isn't really one of those - not competent enough to be an important villain, not heroic enough to be a hero. I guess the parts of Yu Jing that could be protagonists and important left with the JSA - now Yu Jing is just a background character that exists to be a punching bag for other factions that are important.
     
    Kallas likes this.
  18. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    7,205
    Likes Received:
    6,535
    Any particular reasons? Or just being a sycophant?
     
  19. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    7,205
    Likes Received:
    6,535
    Actually, considering that Yu Jing didn't pull out of Paradiso, Yu Jing took the damn high road in the "save humanity" battle. It was PanO (and O-12) who were sabotaging other human factions in the face of the CA invasion. Ironic, considering that the writing was intended to make Yu Jing look like monstrous committers of genocide.
     
    Shiwen and Kallas like this.
  20. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    12,018
    Likes Received:
    15,302
    Here's the thing; I don't think two years ago or one year ago, that CB imagined that Yu Jing would be in a place where they couldn't bear the Uprising book. Partly because I don't think they realise(d) how important the events in the international campaign the community makes of them. They might also have overestimated how important the additions to ISS were (the regular Bounty Hunters and CSU)

    Which again (trying to look forward here) has me a bit worried for how they will handle that in the next campaign.
     
    emperor26, Section9, jj.konko and 3 others like this.
  • About Us

    We are a company founded in 2001 in Cangas (Spain), and devoted to design and manufacture games and figures. Our main product, Infinity the Game, was born with the ambition to satisfy the most demanding audience, offering the best quality.

     

    Why are we here?

     

    Because we are, first and foremost, players.

  • Quick Navigation

    Open the Quick Navigation