I don't think it torpedoed their characterization or at least not for me and each person is different when it comes to that. For me it wasn't much of a leap to see the hard crackdown on the Japanese. One of my 1st encounters with yu king was the poster with the imperial agent holding the citizen and scanning their face or eyes. That to me said alright don't mess these guys look dangerous. I think each factions characterization is a little subjective.
When an intelligence agency or internal security force acts openly with the mandate of the government then yes, in that case they are indeed representative of at least the government if not the country. But if we keep talking about population separately from all its government organization then yes, the government organizations, including the ruling party, may not be representative of the country's populace. This is very common in country's in authoritarian government like you know... They will as soon as they think it's time to try to sell Yu Jing again. In other words when IA is ready to hit. In the end of the day selling Chinese fluff and toys written based on current Chinese system is always going to be difficult in the West because of the negative publicity and public perception about China in the region. Using Chinese as the bad guys ruled by a pseudo evil commie party with a war crime addicted secret police fist is always going to be easier because that's something many Westerners are able to relate to more easily. This also applies to Haqq to an extent. And this year is all about playing it safe in CB's book. So no YJ or Haqq sectorials. I don't blame them for this decision though. This looks like a sound business decision.
If that's the case, if they see their story as *only* grease for the wheels of the marketing machine, then why should we take it any more seriously?
At the very least it's hijacking the boat by virtue of being the loudest voice when everything else is either silent or gone. Also to point out, what the heck are State troops doing in the Shield division? Zuyong and Guijia should be answerable to the Party, not the Emperor.
That's the thing. We shouldn't take the story that seriously, we really shouldn't. The story is there to compliment the minis and the game. The story exists to add fluff and character to them. No more, no less. The story will continue to change based on the requirements of the minis to be released and the game. Which in turn is mainly dictated by sales among other things. The story don't dictate what gets released, it's the other way around. For example, the JSA split story would never happen in a million years if JSA were not far more popular and profitable than rest of YJ.
I am sorry I do not view the people that consist of a country and a country in general with the institutions that make the country work, I do not view as for example the Americans as they have been mentioned in your example as torturers simply because CIA does it, I do not think even the American military views themselves in any relation with the CIA, there is a disconnection between what a country is and what the government of a country does to work and survive. ISS is a tool of Yu Jing and a part of them, it is not what defines them and not how the faction is viewed. We can go into a complex and complicated political and social analysis of why ISS exists in Yu Jing and how its existence reflects upon them for sure, but the actions of secret service does not reflect the entire faction, especially when the Party and the Emperor are two entirely different "political" powers. The imperial system can be viewed at best as half of what constitutes Yu Jing, what I am saying is Yu Jing fluff is not the same as ISS fluff, ISS fluff is part of Yu Jing fluff but not THE Yu Jing fluff.
Stop pretending this is about a population of which there will always be some outliers. Thats an utterly dishonest representation of what a country is. Nations are a real existent entity of their own definitions. When you say "Yu Jing" you a referring to a god damn nation NOT a random selection of Chinese people that may or may not consent to any given action. You do NOT get to use the excuse that good old Bob down the street sure is a nice guy and he would never go along with the ethnic genocide. It doesn't matter what bob thinks when his nations army engages in genocide his NATION and NOT BOB is guilty of genocide. A nation by its own assertion consists of and controls it's various internal apparatus including it's military, it's intelligence agencies, it's judiciary and its governmental leaders ALL OF WHICH endorsed ethnic cleansing in your fluff. These apparatus are as much a part of a nation as your arm is a part of your body. If you don't understand the difference between that and the inhabitants of a nation then I cannot tell you what is wrong with you without breaching polite conversation. But then as usual YOU and your dishonest insulting and inciting excuses, up to and including pretending to not even know what a god damn nation is, happen to be the primary source of incitement to be "rude". Seriously pretending nations don't even do stuff or have responsibility for their actions because people have you no god damn shame?
I do not know how to respond on this, I am quite lenient on personal attacks against myself, maybe you need to reread what you wrote and consider better attitude in the future. I am sorry this year has become tiresome in this department and I think its high time I remind people that the moderation team is to be treated as is expected by everybody else. On the actual discussion if you think what defines America is the actions of CIA, its your call, I disagree. In the same way I disagree that ISS actions is what defines Yu Jing, a nation is not defined by one institution.
As an entity the nation of the USA itself asserts that it is responsible for the actions of the CIA. It literally does not matter one damn bit that a lot of people in the USA disagree with actions of the CIA, or even do not know what they are. The nation is responsible, the nation even claims responsibility and control over the agency. This is not up for debate just because you want to make excuses for a game. But sure. Hide behind personal attacks I pointedly did not make. But maybe, just maybe, acknowledge widely accepted objective reality. Nations are a thing, they do stuff, they are responsible for it, under your wildly imaginative definitions it is impossible for a nation to ever be responsible for any action ever.
Koni doesn't get shit thrown at him, so I think this isn't a "moderation team" problem but a "you" problem. Granted, that's probably because Koni doesn't jump into the mud of discussions. But if Koni had said something like your now famous "Gutier's writing is so great that can create a logical internally consistent world without resorting to outdated world politics, if you cannot understand the nuances of the superpowers and the reason why O-12 is what it is and has the power that it has, it is not Gutier's problem." you can bet we would be roasting his ass off too.
It's a stupid opinion written in a condescending tone. Those tend to annoy people, and cause others to make fun of you because they have absolutely no respect for you. As Aldo said, it's very pointedly a you problem.
Aren't the Nomads a more popular faction than YJ though? Everyone seems to be fine with running space-deviant hippies, despite having even fewer real-world analogues and real-world based lore, that people are aware of or are familiar with anyway. There are different ways of exterminating a people, it's not just about removing a particular group of people with a particular genetic makeup from the planet as soon as possible. Evil men are rarely as stupid as history presents them as: too many bodies too soon causes problems, and it's a far better and sinister idea to figure out other ways of removing an ethnic group. The Ottomans and Ba'athists in the Middle-East, as an example, had the habit of moving large amounts of their dominant ethnic groups into minority areas to change the demographics in order to breed them out. Himmler's plans for Poland and the rest of Eastern Europe basically relied on the idea of trying to ruin the cultures and traditions of as many different ethnic groups as possible to such a point that they all would eventually become "Germanised". You don't have to kill people directly to wipe them out, and there are options of "dealing" with ethnic minorities that don't require being whined at by ineffectual human rights bodies about how mean you are for straight up murdering your way across the countryside one mass grave at a time. The term has been around for longer than the "alt-right" has. To the best of my knowledge, the first person to use the term was a centre-right finance analyst in the first half of 2015, who used it to describe a very particular kind of appeal-to-values rhetoric divorced from actual effective platforms in achieving those aims. He attacked both the left and the right, stating that there was no difference between a conservative who would brag about spending a tiny amount of money on foreign aid compared to a liberal who would brag about buying organic food- the actual impact of these things is irrelevant to people's lives and didn't really have much material impact on the world, yet today many political figures are consumed by the sin of pride and have to let everyone know how important and generous they are. Back when it was written, the "alt-right" were not even a thing at that point in time.
I would appreciate an explanation on why it is a stupid opinion, on the tone I am afraid people will read the tone they want to read it was not written in a "condescending" tone and no "tone" can be conveyed accurately in the "internet" written form.
You guys are getting very close to crossing a line with the personal attacks on the forum moderator of all people. Do yourselves a favour, reign it in and get some perspective.
Tone CAN be conveyed in writing, and the internet doesn't strip language of that ability... it just makes it harder, less reliable, since running without the cues of speech and posture, and with the medium tending to want us to put out less words, more quickly, things can easily be left open to interpretation when they were intended to be clear. In the case of that specific quote, whatever the intent, I certainly read it as "Gutier's writing is amazing and the people criticizing it just aren't smart enough to understand it," which was a little insulting as someone holding there are problems and valid critiques to be made when it comes to Uprising.
I see what you say in isolation, but it was written within the context of the discussion, not in isolation.
