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The Expanse is canceled, long live The Expanse!

Discussion in 'Off-Topic English' started by Icchan, May 12, 2018.

  1. chromedog

    chromedog Less than significant minion

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    It's mostly that SyFy wanted more control over the show's distribution.

    #RemembertheTachi
    #Holdenisadick
     
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  2. Lothlanathorian

    Lothlanathorian Not a custom title

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    And I 100% believe this is a negotiation tactic on their part. They want to renegotiate a more favorable deal before they agree to carry another season. I don't doubt that they'll manage just that and season 4 will continue as normal.
     
  3. Kahlain

    Kahlain Greeble-Faust investigator

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    A lot like what happened with several of the seasons of B5. An independently produced show, cast adrift.

    Yes, there is money to be made distributing Expanse. Someone will likely pick it up.

    But the continued silliness of Sci-Fi annoys. Thank you for reminding me of how they threw away Stargate. I had finally gotten over being iritated with them about that...
     
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  4. Del S

    Del S Nomadball

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    I will laugh hard if this is true, and the show jumps to Netflix exclusive.
     
  5. Del S

    Del S Nomadball

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  6. Lothlanathorian

    Lothlanathorian Not a custom title

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    I thought B5 was produced by a network (PTEN) that went under and it was picked up by a different network that continued production (TNT)?
     
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  7. Lothlanathorian

    Lothlanathorian Not a custom title

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    Dopple poast for updates! Amazon has officially picked it up for season 4.
     
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  8. Icchan

    Icchan Well-Known Member

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    It's not final yet, they're still in talks.
     
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  9. Lothlanathorian

    Lothlanathorian Not a custom title

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    Damn it, the article I read made it sound pretty final. I hate them.
     
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  10. Kahlain

    Kahlain Greeble-Faust investigator

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    Sidebar: R/e B5:

    Yours is a good summary of the drama between B5's seasons 3 & 4. (I think. The "we are no longer supporting B5" thing seemed to start about 5 minutes after the show was green-lit. The intensity varied, from low hum, to mob with torches and pitch forks. And I won't swear to it, but my memory puts the announcement of the death of PTEN back in season 2.)

    It got a bit weirder because B5 was produced for PTEN, which was "owned" (in part) by Warner Brothers. For simplicity, I am just going to say Warner Bros -- not that partnership that Warner Bros totally dominated. Warner Bros announced PTEN was going away, and there was serious doubt r/e B5. WB continued B5, then announced they were dropping it. This announcement came out with season 4 shooting either about to start or already under way. JMS then tried to wrap things up, and shoved a lot of season 5 stuff into season 4. Then -- surprise! --TNT picked them up and the fifth season... was. Season 5 had already lost some plot lines, lost at least one major player, heart, soul, a chunk of spleen, etc.

    Under the "patronage" of TNT, Crusade turned into a complete debacle: the order of episodes was changed, and the TNT Execs apparently micro-managed everything from crew uniforms to set design.

    If I recall correctly, WB was talking about axing B5 even as it was winning Emmys and Hugos. 2 each, I think. Warner Bros clearly had no clue what they had with B5. They mis-managed the property then, and continue to do so now. JMS has repeatedly expressed interest in doing something else with it. WB/TNT -- not so much. (The rights get a little murky to me, to be honest. And if they don't know what they own, they might be wise to stay well away from it.)

    Just Slightly More Relevant:

    Yeah, I understand TV is a business, and must make money. I'm cool with that. No, I really am. I even get that I have to pay for a bunch of stuff I couldn't care less about, and some crap I hate, to support the networks and studios that might one day stoop to making a show I will actually be mildly enthusiastic to watch.... And bouncing from distributor to distributor, can create a rat's nest of issues, unless the contracts are crystal clear r/e who has rights to what.

    Gems like Expanse and B5 really require a different than normal approach from TV Execs. Handled properly, they can make a ton of money and do the ground-breaking, artistic stuff, too. I argue their "originality" (to the extent they are original...) is a big driver of their success. So Original + Art = Money. Slapping shows like these into a "tried and true" format won't work. 'Cause then you just have NCISpace, or CSI-Space... Okay, blood spatter evidence in zero-gee could be kind of cool. But I have very little faith they'd get the physics right.

    The whole Sci-Fi "TV" genre could benefit from the Execs actually understanding their target demographic -- Sci-Fi fans, and how we watch programming. And that's not even right, because it isn't just about "watching." We really try to participate with the shows, settings, actors, creators, and so on.

    During its run, B5 had elements of the story that could only be found in novels, comics, the fan club newsletter, and I forget what all else. Using tie-ins to advance the main TV story at the same time that story was being told on TV. Somewhat unusual for the day. JMS also frequented the Usenet groups and would discuss the show, philosophy, or just about anything, with us fans. B5 products weren't just cash grabs: JMS used the B5Wars game, RPG books, etc to flesh out some aspects of the setting, where was character X during episode Y, and more.

    Expanse started as novels, with some novella tie-ins. Be cool to see more concurrent, multi-media development in Expanse.

    Totally relevant Infinity universe Sidebar: Kind of like we have Infinity, Outrage, and now Aristeia...

    In the here and now, Expanse sees a lot of streaming viewership: and streaming is where I start to get pissed and irrational. I don't know where the break down on the Execs understanding streaming is -- but the break down is very real. And it seems to be there inability to properly value and monetize it. If I DVR the show, I can skip commercials. If I watch On Demand -- or via the app on my smart phone, I have to watch commercials?!? Screw that noise! I would be willing to pay a little extra to skip the damn commercials. Considering how stupidly high my bill is, a case could be made that I already paid, so let me stream without commercials!

    Execs don't get it. This is the day of the Inter-Nets. If I need male impotence pharmaceuticals, or feminine hygiene products, I will LOG-ON, research the available options, assume the anonymous reviewer is 100% trustworthy, and buy what-ever the reviewer tells me to buy from Amazon! TV ads are DEAD because damn near everyone hates them gobbling up our limited ENTERTAINMENT time...

    Except, occasionally, for Super Bowl ads -- but only when they involve costume malfunctions, or Tactical Rocks. Yeah, show me ads for Tactical Rocks, and Combat heels. Those, I'd buy.
     
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  11. Lothlanathorian

    Lothlanathorian Not a custom title

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    The Expanse actually started as an idea for either a PNP RPG or an MMO, and the other half of James S. A. Corey said, "Dude, let's take that awesome universe you built and write books!" and they split the characters they would each write. I think it would be an excellent property to make into an RPG or an MMO still.




    On B5, I didn't watch it when it was on television (I was in elementary school and very into Trek, but didn't get into B5, but it was much more adult and I wasn't yet interested in such serious drama, but, you know, I loved TNG. It doesn't have to make sense). Everything I know about the show comes from being crazy into it in adulthood and reading up on all the behind the scenes stuff. Right now, I'm pushing it hard to the tech theater professors at the college I attend (my local community college) because it's a show that was made for their people (who I am slowly becoming one of).


    Back on topic: Yes, tv execs just flat out do not understand modern television audiences at all, and it gets even worse when you get into science fiction and fantasy shows. The saddest part of all is that it's the damn network that was started to give a home to only sci-fi/fantasy and now they don't know what the hell they existed for. Scifi Channel died the day they aired Braveheart.
     
  12. chromedog

    chromedog Less than significant minion

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    P&P rpg then it progressed to MMO but never really got off the ground.

    Then that guy hooked up with the "actual writer", who said "This would make a great book series" and it went from there.
     
  13. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    As I understand it, the Expanse started as an idea for a pen&paper game of some flavor, I'm vaguely remembering RPG. There was a literal shipping-container full of research for it. Most of which you actually had to have read to be able to make a character and fight in 3d. So no publisher was willing to take a chance on it, they suggested that it'd work better as an MMO, with the computers handling the number-crunching and table references.

    It gets shopped around as an MMO setting. 'Too technical' (compared to what, EVE Online?), immense server demands, etc. 'Why don't you try to write some stories to help sell this?'

    Stories.

    TV series.
     
  14. Solodice

    Solodice Freshly Squeezed Troll

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  15. Kahlain

    Kahlain Greeble-Faust investigator

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    Yep. Though I'd date their demise to the moment they decided to run that Ancient Aliens tripe. A bunch of us should just buy the damn network...

    Back to Expanse: It sounds as if the rights are already convoluted. That suggests the writer and creator are protecting said rights.

    I hope so. Because the alternative seems to Expanse going the way of B5. It really sucks when a promising Sci-Fi universe just fades to black.
     
  16. colbrook

    colbrook Black Fryer

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  17. Lothlanathorian

    Lothlanathorian Not a custom title

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  18. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    I found a shop on Shapeways that makes ships from the Expanse. I'm very tempted to buy a model of the Rocinante. I just wish the Stealth Ship was in the same scale as the Roci.
     
  19. Kahlain

    Kahlain Greeble-Faust investigator

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    Roci design is one mean looking rocket.
     
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  20. chromedog

    chromedog Less than significant minion

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    Infinity ALSO started out as a p&p rpg, then became a miniatures game, and then full-circle, became an rpg again.

    Firefly started as a gem of an idea in Joss Whedon's head from all of his Traveller games in college.

    PP's WM/H game started as an expansion for a fantasy game rpg (Iron kingdoms), which became a miniatures game, that begat another rpg (IK).

    It's not that uncommon a cycle.

    Hell, going back to AD&D, Ravenloft started as a single module that became its own world within the game.