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The Executive Order update is terrible and should be rolled back.

Discussion in 'Access Guide to the Human Sphere' started by Nimlothautle, Oct 16, 2019.

  1. csjarrat

    csjarrat Well-Known Member
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    Cheer up pal. There's plenty of room for a red fury wielding CoC pheasant as a gunner and a specialist as well as CoC. There also room for the variant with the mad traps as some board control as well as being a specialist and CoC.
    Expand your mind away from "CoC must sit in a building in DZ and do nothing" and you'll see some better use for it, especially in ITS where CoC gets boni for missions and classifieds
     
    toadchild likes this.
  2. Zewrath

    Zewrath Nordic Master

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    I have done that, I've even won a major tournament and placed 2nd on another using the Red Fury Haris with 2 Bao troopers. I still maintain that the CoC are garbage for their costs and the price for a frail 1W character, clocking in at nearly 40 points, is beyond outrageous, so please drop the patronizing tone.
    Tai Sheng is at least justified in IA because in the event that your Lt. dies, it's actually quite nice that she can use the Lt. order via the NCO but she isn't the least bit viable in Vanilla.
     
  3. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Being bad isn't the same as being useless. Pheasant performs almost as well as the Kempeitai, but the price you pay extra for the Pheasant doesn't quite reflect a noticeable performance gain and there are a lot of 30-40 point options in Yu Jing that has significantly better performance when used actively.
     
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  4. csjarrat

    csjarrat Well-Known Member
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    So you're saying you've used it, it worked well and you placed highly in competitive environment, but you want a points discount? Cos that's what it sounds like you're saying.
    It's also very different to "they're garbage", because you've proven to yourself they're not.

    As an addendum, YJ's CoC options are far better than my ariadnan and nomad options!!
     
    chromedog likes this.
  5. Aldo

    Aldo Trying to detox from being a lorefag

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    Far better than Vassily and the Tankhunter?
     
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  6. Zewrath

    Zewrath Nordic Master

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    .... Yes..? I mean, I dont know what to say, why is this weird to you?
    I could (for the sake of argument) win the every single major tournament you could care to mention, using the Guija, it still wouldn't change the fact that the Guija is overpriced garbage? I mean, why do you think me stating that is weird? I don't get it.

    Are you actually trolling?
    You mean the Tankhunter with Forward Deployment, D-charges, Adhesive Launcher (B2 in Hunting Party), ARM3, hidden behind a Marker state, who also happens to be cheaper than every single loadout of the Pheasant except the Boarding Shotgun?

    Or do you mean the insanely usefull, lethal specialist Vassilly?

    I mean, sure... I guess the Lone Ranger is trash but okay.

    Also, don't talk to be about Nomads. That faction is already semi-broken and I feel disgusting every time I play that faction, even more so when they uironically got access to Jammers and a 12 point yolo cheerleader with Counter-Intelligence. The last thing that faction needs is Chain of Command.
     
    #46 Zewrath, Oct 21, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2019
  7. TheRedZealot

    TheRedZealot Well-Known Member
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    If you can win any/every major tournament with a unit sort of conclusively proves that while it may not be optimal it is very much usable/effective. Which I think is CSJarrat's point. If you've consistently done well despite taking a 'garbage unit' than its not something thats actually holding you back.
     
    Remnar, csjarrat, chromedog and 4 others like this.
  8. Barrogh

    Barrogh Well-Known Member

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    Or maybe he estimates his opponents as players who have no idea what they are doing.

    Either is possible.
     
    A Mão Esquerda likes this.
  9. TheRedZealot

    TheRedZealot Well-Known Member
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    On a local level entirely possible.

    But by his own argument he claims wining any/every major tournament wouldn't show any value to the unit. Which is definitely inaccurate. Unless we're assuming in this hypothetical universe that every single player outside of Zewrath is garbage. Which I assume some number of players on this forum would take issue with.
     
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  10. Alphz

    Alphz Kuang Shi Vet. Retired.

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    Yu Jing also have some amazing lt options. We can't have our cake and eat it. But none the less I think the pheasant has been tweaked sufficiently to be ok but expensive.
    The mad traps, red fury or killer hacker all bring modest utility.
    There's a huge opportunity cost though, which is different to being outright garbage. It's just a question of how much is not going to LoL worth it to a player.
     
  11. Zewrath

    Zewrath Nordic Master

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    No? My point is that any decent player can make a trash unit work. It doesn't make the trash unit stop being trash.. I don't understand why this is hard to understand... :/
     
  12. Zewrath

    Zewrath Nordic Master

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    I have no idea where this nonsense strawman is comming from
     
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  13. TheRedZealot

    TheRedZealot Well-Known Member
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    I think there are some crossed wires here. Units can certainly over perform in the hands of a skilled player when faced with weaker competition. I don't think any of us are arguing that. I was taking fault specifically with some of the hyperbole in your posts.

    Not aimed at you but I can see where the confusion is coming from. Barrogh was arguing that if players are of varying skill/experience levels that units that are otherwise under performers may otherwise overperform (Something which I believe you are also arguing.). I was pointing out that in this hypothetical situation I was taking issue with the skill level of the opponent's wasn't at question, they are the biggest/best events so we know that they must attract the biggest and best players. But I could have been more clear.
     
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  14. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    Yup.
     
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  15. csjarrat

    csjarrat Well-Known Member
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    Tank hunter costs 30 points so is actually one point more expensive than the cheapest CoC pheasant! Vassily is decent, I'll give you that But he's 39 points and is more expensive than the pheasant.
    If price is what you're moaning about, ariadna is comparable or more pricey than us
     
  16. Sedral

    Sedral Invincible Officier

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    They're pricey, but unlike the pheasant you get some bangs for your bucks (though I still kinda like the red fury pheasant, but whatever...).
     
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  17. ObviousGray

    ObviousGray Frenzied Mushroom
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    Hold up, YJ bros; we are hijacking the topic. Lets focus on Hac Tao..
     
  18. Aldo

    Aldo Trying to detox from being a lorefag

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    It's still a Hac Tao, it got kinda nerfed in two profiles (but really only one because who uses a Multi Rifle XO Hac Tao?), It has BS14 and TO and a big gun, it just got made kinda worse because someone decided that their unprecedented view of the rules was more important than letting a cool and not unbalanced thing exist because fun is evil or something.

    That's kind of all of it, isnt it?

    Van Zant also became slightly worse, but he will still tear through your backline so same as above.

    So just kind of a nerf but not one that really does anything? One order is important and all but neither of these two will suffer much over it.

    Its more nerfing fun and the two weird strategies* than nerfing troops.

    *Daoying + Hac Tao for 2 Lt orders on one turn and Agressive LT+CoC+XO guy
     
  19. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    It's always a question about price versus what you get for it. Vassily and Tankhunter gets a lot of synnergy with the CoC skill for their points. Maybe not in their faction, but that's saying more about their faction.
     
  20. Nimlothautle

    Nimlothautle Well-Known Member

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    This 100%. XO is fun and not very powerful. I will still take the non-XO Hac Tao and Van Zant's in my lists, it's just sort of a strange thing to one day 'clarify' this rule, when nobody asked the question or wanted this answer.

    I think the bigger issue is that Corvus Belli has a bad policy towards FAQ's and what is very frequently actually errata or rules updates. They are getting better at recognizing how important regularly responding to rules questions is to the health of their game which is growing in popularity, but some of the recent updates are just baffling like the XO change out of nowhere. You can say it was a clarification, but a huge portion of the gaming population was not playing XO this way. That makes it a de-facto update.
     
    Hecaton likes this.