1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Hemos actualizado nuestra Política de Privacidad acorde con la nueva RGPD. +Info // We've updated our Privacy Policy to comply with the GDPR. +Info
    Dismiss Notice

The Executive Order update is terrible and should be rolled back.

Discussion in 'Access Guide to the Human Sphere' started by Nimlothautle, Oct 16, 2019.

  1. Armihaul

    Armihaul Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2017
    Messages:
    619
    Likes Received:
    457
    more in the I criticise the hyprocritals that I have found sometimes that say that spam should be banned, while they themselves do spam and their only suggestion to other people is the same.

    Also, just saying from my experience that spam has been in the game always, is not something new, and time ago, was accepted that some factions not only used, but also needed the spam. Maybe the problem has been giving easy access of order spam to some elite factions using elite profiles
     
  2. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    4,716
    Likes Received:
    4,582
    @Armihaul that's the opposite of hypocrisy.
     
  3. Weathercock

    Weathercock Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2018
    Messages:
    353
    Likes Received:
    447
    It really throws a wrench in what used to be one of my favourite units in the game's viability. With the Daoying being as important for Yu Jing as it is right now, and with our own great NCO options in the Mowang and Tai Sheng, using that executive order is just depriving yourself of an important skill that you paid good points for with no real upside.
    Before the FAQ, it felt like a decent tradeoff. You lose Lt2, but in exchange you get one big play on one turn for it, make your extra order count.

    Now, the Hac Tao isn't bad, but executive order was a really cool rule that made him functionally unique from the Swiss Guard. And now it's a rule that I actively avoid taking because it messes so many things up. If CB really wants to run executive order in this way, they should just remove it from the game and give the Hac Tao something else. Because otherwise, he just feels like a swiss guard with one less BS (I'm just referring to the HMG variant here, the KHD is baller).
     
  4. Zewrath

    Zewrath Nordic Master

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2017
    Messages:
    1,302
    Likes Received:
    1,882
    Erh, no. His DA CCW that can be used against objectives as well as CC high enough not to make him suck, is already much ahead in utility than the Swiss. Furthermore his WIP14 combined with his Nanopulser, makes him very good at intuitive attacks against markers as well as excellent CQC defensive ARO’s, where he can exchange templates, often not even suffering a wound in return due to his ARM, makes him a better profile overall, as he is much better equipped to handle multiple varied threats your opponent could think of.

    The only profile I find truly superior is the Swiss Guard ML, as not only is he a scary ARO piece but also a scary dude with a shotgun, should he wish to make use of it.
     
    ObviousGray, Sedral and barakiel like this.
  5. Nimlothautle

    Nimlothautle Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2018
    Messages:
    13
    Likes Received:
    45
    +1 this

    I want to point out that I don't think NCO, LT2, and TA are too strong, I think they are fine. I just think that XO was 'clarified' into irrelevance and I wish it wasn't. Also, if Corvus wants to strip the SWC cost off of Rambo LT's, I wouldn't be mad about that either lol
     
  6. Weathercock

    Weathercock Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2018
    Messages:
    353
    Likes Received:
    447
    I had weighed the viability of the extra close quarters capabilities, but I feel they're much more useful on the KHD profile (where I'd say that they go from situationally nice to have to being amazing). It's definitely some nice functionality, but I don't consider it a big enough boost, both in viability and identity of the HMG profile, to nullify the loss of loss of executive order.
     
  7. Sabin76

    Sabin76 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    1,218
    Likes Received:
    1,507
    They should just scrap XO as a rule at this point.

    If they want something to function as the current XO, they should just give it CoC. If they want something to function as we used to play XO, then they should give them NCO and CoC.

    The only difference between CoC and XO now is that the transfer of Lt is immediate with XO and you wait until your first Lt dies with CoC. I don't see enough functional difference for there to be a distinction any more. Even considering the CoC has to be on the board when the Lt goes down while the XO doesn't, I think that just adds more bloat than the rules difference is worth.
     
  8. Zewrath

    Zewrath Nordic Master

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2017
    Messages:
    1,302
    Likes Received:
    1,882
    I think you and I have a difference of philosophies when it comes to XO. The extra order is usually secondary to me (although still important) but my actual use of XO is to safe guard myself against LoL.
    The Hac Tao HMG is simply such a resilient motherfucker that I use him instead of the Pheasant Rank that I utterly despise. When you have an ARM5 TO Marker in stuck in your back line, dishing out pain, not much is actually able to kill him in an order efficient fashion, not without going overboard with their rescources anyway. If my opponent actually has rescources to casually walk down and kill my Hac Tao Lt., either I have misplaced him badly, deployed terribly or my opponent is already mopping the floor with me, so he can afford to invest in hunting a Hac Tao in my back line.
    You and I appear to have a very different opinion of what makes the XO function well on the Hac Tao and that's okay, because that's how you play your games but I wouldn't write off the skill.
    To be honest, the true loser of this skill is actually Van Zant, as him having an extra order he can dish out, before dying in a blaze of glory, appears to be the only function of him.

    As a minor thing, he haven't actually lost the executive order, he has merely lost 1 order on the first turnhe is revealed.
     
    ObviousGray likes this.
  9. Alphz

    Alphz Kuang Shi Vet. Retired.

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2017
    Messages:
    1,080
    Likes Received:
    2,150
    This is very true. How I constantly daydream about the hac Tao miss having something to shoot with like the Aquila. Even a brace of breaker pistols would be amazing. I'd literally trade both the cc and the pulser for any short range Bs weapon.
     
    Dragonstriker and ObviousGray like this.
  10. ObviousGray

    ObviousGray Frenzied Mushroom
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2017
    Messages:
    1,383
    Likes Received:
    2,278
    Top notch description. Have my like.
     
    Zewrath likes this.
  11. csjarrat

    csjarrat Well-Known Member
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2017
    Messages:
    992
    Likes Received:
    915
    I'm not a fan of XO, YJ has some good CoC profiles, I'd rather lose the XO and pick up MA instead
     
  12. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    6,290
    Likes Received:
    7,846
    As much as I don't like the XO and how unreliable it is, Yu Jing's CoC profiles are fairly terrible. Except Tai "Priority Target" Sheng
     
    Zewrath likes this.
  13. Armihaul

    Armihaul Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2017
    Messages:
    619
    Likes Received:
    457
    People saying "that thing is bad/OP, don't use it, should be banned/nerfed", while they use it is the opposite of hyprocresy? definitely we speak different languajes
     
  14. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    4,716
    Likes Received:
    4,582
    Hold up, sucker. In your post that I said wasn't, in fact, hypocrisy, nowhere in it did you suggest that the people running order spam were suggesting that others shouldn't use the same strategy; in fact, you said they were encouraging others to do the same. That's why that's the opposite of hypocrisy. Pointing out that a game element is overpowered while utilizing it yourself isn't hypocrisy; encouraging others not to do it while using it yourself would be.
     
    Dragonstriker and meikyoushisui like this.
  15. Armihaul

    Armihaul Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2017
    Messages:
    619
    Likes Received:
    457
    "people that say that spam should be banned, then crush you and say "do spam"". Lets see if I can explain, and you try sometime to read what people try to explain instead of read what you want (again)

    they blame spam, criticise spam and so. Then they win the game using spam and the only proposition they say is "do spam". Obviously, I refeer to people with different factions, and as I induced in that post, one that needed spam and another that didn't. If some factions need that option, you (I mean a retorical person, not anybody in particular) suggest that they use it, but at the same time you want to ban it, and after crushing them your only suggestion is to do spam, then you are being hypocrital, because you are admiting that their only option should be nerfed/banned.
     
  16. Barrogh

    Barrogh Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2017
    Messages:
    1,870
    Likes Received:
    1,602
    If they were telling others that whoever "spams" is a douche, then kept using those builds themselves, I guess you could call that being hypocritical. But they don't label people for playing to win, honestly tell you what they think you should do to win more and they are willing to prove that whatever they suggest works actually works by putting their minis where their mouth is. How on earth you think that is dishonest is beyond me.

    Admitting that current game has specific problem while saying that they'd rather play slightly different game in the future is not hypocrisy.
     
    Dragonstriker likes this.
  17. Armihaul

    Armihaul Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2017
    Messages:
    619
    Likes Received:
    457
    that's the point: they don't admit the game has a specific problem. They just want to get rid of that option because they don't need it (even if they use it), so is not a problem to them, but at the same time they admit that other factions do need it. If someone want to nerf something, I suppose that is because that person wants a more balanced game. But if at the same time they want to take out the tools of others, then they are not looking for balance.
     
  18. Zewrath

    Zewrath Nordic Master

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2017
    Messages:
    1,302
    Likes Received:
    1,882
    YJ have the worst general CoC profiles in the game. The only ones who are worse are the meme-tier profiles, like Kirpal Singh and the Holy Sepulchre Knight.
    The only semi-decent CoC profile we have is the Hai Dao, which is stuck as a sectorial-exclusive, which never has a reason to ever field him.
     
  19. Barrogh

    Barrogh Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2017
    Messages:
    1,870
    Likes Received:
    1,602
    In my book, claiming something is OP is admitting the problem with said something.

    "Need", which I read as "it's fine that those armies retain it".
    Oh well. Now that I'm thinking about it, perhaps we both should not put word into other people's mouths.

    Anyway, issue of "order spam" per se is not an issue of balance between different armies as long as you don't homogenize active pieces, utility and other options armies have. If you give more and more tools to everyone, which is exactly what was happening in recent year or so, don't act surprised when ones with more fuel run those pieces better.
     
  20. Armihaul

    Armihaul Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2017
    Messages:
    619
    Likes Received:
    457
    I think I should repeat that I was talking about some people I know, and I was refering to them all the time as hypocrital.

    My point is "need" as "Whithout it, they are not so as competitive as other factions that don't need it". Or in other way "they need it to be as competitive as other factions are without using it". For some factions is an option, for some others, the faction was designed with that use in mind.