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The definite N4 Comments, Suggestions, Ideas, wishlist's and Bugs that need fixing thread

Discussion in 'Access Guide to the Human Sphere' started by psychoticstorm, Aug 6, 2019.

  1. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    If my memory serves, even Fusiliers have MSV in the setting. It just wouldn't be an interesting game if they did in game.
     
    AdmiralJCJF likes this.
  2. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    I haven't seen anything about that.
     
  3. the huanglong

    the huanglong Well-Known Member

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    MSV3 will probably fit in a cellphone before we all die. The idea of futuristic mecha optics being thwarted by some charging woad warrior's dimestore smoke grenade is laughable, and that's why TAG attendance is laughable.
     
  4. Daerthe

    Daerthe A former JSA and IA player

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    If a software module is so buggy that you can not save it, like IA, you throw it away and implement it from scratch. At JSA, it's roughly the same, a complete rework in N4, but you have to start from scratch, no transfer of the code. And if I have only 2 showcases armies, I could live better with that than with both armies until now ...
     
  5. the huanglong

    the huanglong Well-Known Member

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    The 5-man link bonus is another thing that greatly skews the game in favor of quantity over quality, made worse by the random handouts of minmaxable mixed links. It should be gone.
     
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  6. toadchild

    toadchild EI Aspect

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    The whole point of an edition change is that the game gets a ground-up rework, rather than a couple points fixes and profile updates here and there. From 2nd to N3 basically no list survived unscathed - I'm looking forward to the same sort of shake up from N4. From a general conceptual perspective there's nothing wrong with either army, and there's no reason that the same basic unit concepts can't be made into something effective and fun.
     
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  7. CabalTrainee

    CabalTrainee Well-Known Member

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    @toadchild The amount of sectorials and profiles we have right does make it pretty hard on a company to make everything effective abd fun. Especially for a company without ridiculous manpower.
     
    Daerthe likes this.
  8. Sedral

    Sedral Invincible Officier

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    My biggest hope for N4, besides the formula thingy, is that they'll rework how ARO declaration works, just so we don't see anymore of those shenanigans that allows you to get free hits on things, like the hsien haris with madtraps in a smoke.
     
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  9. Click2kill

    Click2kill Well-Known Member

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    I must not be playing the same game as some of the people in this thread, because the game doesn't seem as bad as some are making it out to be. Is there a power creep? Sure, every game that is dynamic will have a power creep. Are there some loopholes/bugs that need to be addressed? sure, that's why there was N2, N3, and now N4.

    But to complain that X needs to be removed because you can't handle it or "This needs to have its cost increased/decreased because it doesn't work with MY math" is a bit Chicken Little. The way some of these post are coming off is we should just have one vanilla faction with 1 unit and no abilities, and the game should be who wins enough die rolls. And I'm sure someone will complain about that as well lol.
     
  10. daszul

    daszul Well-Known Member

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    Why, they have Fireteam: Core?
    Which defensive link team needs MSV2 if they already have Sixth Sense?
     
  11. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    I think you're being a bit harsh, but what you're suggesting would probably not be a bad way to go about fixing some of the sectorials, IA being very prominent among them. I don't think JSA is one of them, though, I think JSA is probably the most salvageable of them all.
    No, I mean in the RPG that Gutier (I think) dungeon mastered. Fusiliers are very well equipped, including visors that allows them to see through thin materials such as fabric and smoke flares/'nades.

    In game, not so much, since I'm sure I'm not alone in thinking it wouldn't make for a good game if essentially all Pan-O (and most Yu Jing) had MSV1+
     
    Yog.0, A Mão Esquerda and Daerthe like this.
  12. mazzacheammazza

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    Another personale pet peeves is the uniformity of hacking devices, who is boring and not make a lot of sense. I think some program should be reserved to model who, in fluff, have a reason to be specialized in using it. Instead, most device are equal cross faction, within category, and have a bloat of program, rarely used.

    The few model who have a single extra special program look so unique and cool, even if not so useful.

    So, i rather like all device go very barebone, 1 or 2 "generic" program. Indeed, we could simply kill the whole concept of different hacking devices, all have the same base pack (like spotlight and AHP). But almost all haker in your faction have one special program or two (who will be, basically, the old list spread around). This will be also a cool justification for massive point reduction, based on the usefulness of the pack. Swc cost will avoid excessive spam.

    Example. Only orc have fairydust, only fusiler have the markmanship 2, only the croc have the TaG possession, only kamau the jam aircraft... And so on. Some redundancies could be inserted for the sake of sectorial balance (so an acontencimento regular and a fusiler could have a similar pack) but rember, similar does not mean identical.
     
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  13. meikyoushisui

    meikyoushisui Competitor for Most Ignored User

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    The recent arms race among new releases hurts JSA more than maybe any other army in the game. Post-Uprising, JSA had a lot of new tools to counter some of the way things were played, but today, JSA's lack of firepower is a much harsher issue than it used to be. The widespread availability of BS16+ active turn weapons (Core link Rui Shi, for example), increased access to mix cores for traditionally harder to fit pieces, and BS15+ MSV2 / BS15+ Mimetism AROs (Dakinis, Kamau, Haidao, and Taagma MSV2 are all types of these that have been introduced since Uprising) for more budget prices than ever has a huge impact on JSA's viability. Even Tohaa has pieces that can outshoot things really easily in the active turn now (Sukeul and Draal). JSA's BS13 w/ no mods soft-cap*, and its BS16 with no mods/visors hard cap, with limited access to smoke, is more and more difficult to play around.

    *: or BS15 MSV2 if you are a Kempei and sacrifice range/have to stay in a clunky and squishy link/sacrifice a burst, or you are a Rui Shi and overpay SWC and never be able to shoot about 15 even when things are out of cover and still lose a burst compared to linked weapons.

    Other armies, even ones with traditionally lower BS, get something to compensate for it -- either more widespread access to visual mods, marksmanship level 2, etc. JSA has Oniwabans and Ryukens, which are honestly great (maybe even a bit too good in the Ryuken's case), but those don't make an entire list by themselves.
     
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  14. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    I know what you think, I've read the threads, I just don't agree with all of it. JSA has a better spread of abilities than most sectorials and most of the arguments I see would mean vanilla can't compete at all, which simply isn't true.

    Fact of the matter is, the arms race you refer to isn't much of an arms race. It's more like a crutch race. The race to have the best crutch. JSA isn't winning, but their crutch (Ninjas) is functional (except the Shikami).

    While it's entirely true that the sectorial is not top 25% and has a murderous skill floor, I'm simply not seeing drastic (sectorial ending) changes being necessary.
     
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  15. Ghiacciolo

    Ghiacciolo New Member

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    Make N4 for new players

    everything moves forward, keep it fresh and new. Be bold. Attract new players more than old ones. Moreover localize,localize,localize...bring on a f..king Italian version! I've adopted N3 at launch, worked my ass out as a warcor to bring the game in my local club, demos over demos at local shops and conventions, tournaments, leagues...wasted time, cause let be clear: yours products are not in shops, thus they aren't in the market. Even if one find cool miniatures at the shop, (sadly) foreign language is too much an obstacles for a technical ruleset like infinity.

    I understand this could be an high risk/low return investment for your company, but c'mon...there's no need for a full fledged printed book, just a pdf will be ok. Use Kickstarter goals if needed.


    The Defiance conundrum

    Quite surprised to see N4 so close to defiance. A boxed dungeon crawler with cool miniatures could be the perfect starter to expose new players to the setting and ruleset. So the two games should have common ground rules, like a "lite quickstart to infinity".
    (OT: guys I guess we will see fancy aristeia dices in infinity N4 XD)


    Streamlined rules

    As noted everywhere...cut the bloated rules and presentation. Is ok to be a technical game, but as now the perceived complexity is too much an obstacle for new players to join


    Hard fixes

    Remove/dampen criticals: auto hit+wound don't belong to this game.

    You worked hard to make a tactical game, we work hard to master the ruleset and make sound decisions while playing a match: to be completely screwed by a single bad die is a complete non-sense. Remember that this is the same game where u can stack -12mod and your opponent don't even roll dices!!. So choose one: either it is a hero game where everything can kill anything, or it is a tactical game where a better opponent chew u. Let's face it: We're all here for some depth in the rules, otherwise we will be playing some GW stuff instead...with tons of dice, no mods and an almost fixed 50% success rate.

    Critical are even worst to new players: after having ran countless games with brand new players I had to drop critical from demos cos I've learned this: 90% of the times I score a couple of criticals myself, the guy will leave the table with such a bad taste of being cheated that he will never return to infinity. NEVER!

    Add new stuff

    Make N4 brings new rules, gadgets and new dimension to the gameplay … like:


    Characters lieutenants (warmachine like)

    Add new profiles that can change the flavor of an army, for example that change AVA, or provide buff or debuff some units in an army, so that one can have the same army, but could change his gameplay slightly just swapping lieutenants...bonus point: perfect to bring on aristeia characters!


    Orders 's expenditure change

    Like having players alternating a single order until turn ends. Maybe this will give a more malleable gameplay, whit players able to adjust strategy as they go…


    Terrain compositions

    Bring some fixed o semi-random table arrangements (especially in competitive play) so that the optimal table coverage is consistently achieved
     
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  16. Sabin76

    Sabin76 Well-Known Member

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    I've said it before and I'll say it again... if your entire gameplan can be destroyed by a single crit, you didn't have a very good gameplan. You have to perform actions with the knowledge that things can go wrong.

    There is also a difference between getting a unit deleted in the first couple orders of the game and the last couple orders. In the first couple orders, you should have some sort of backup plan. In the last couple orders, well at least you played a full game and it's coming down to the last few actions to determine a winner... I'd say you were fairly evenly matched.

    That said, removing crits from the first few games with a new player is probably not a bad idea.
     
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  17. Daerthe

    Daerthe A former JSA and IA player

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    I myself am sorry that I answer, but

    it's not about the certain skills in the game concept are negotiating, it's about the fact that the previous game concept apparently works best when you simply spammy cheap units. Then the winner wins, because he just throws everything on you ...
    Sure that is greatly simplified, but there is probably in the two factions not these factual discussions of people who not even play the faction if it were not. For IA was announced by Carlos, would there be a bonus if you play only HI, which bonus the one that is lamented until it succeeds, from the funny little Jammer's that was distributed like candy on Halloween?

    I love this game, it just has to be insanity to do that ... I think it's kinda good anyway .. If I was reasonable, I would immediately call my painting service and stop painting my JSA, which cost just under 3,000 euros(2.000 until now), but I like the faction and I would be happy to play, but if the first removed from the system and revised ...

    But yes, I'm just joking because I can not play. My cheap 5pt. Warband and my MSV2 linked sniper and TO-Misslelauncher are going to stop the opposing Warbands ... oh that's not JSA's ...
     
  18. Iro

    Iro Unidron, Dron, Dron, saca los cuernos al Sol~~

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    This, second part.
     
  19. A Mão Esquerda

    A Mão Esquerda Deputy Hexahedron Officer

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    I’ve heard mention (sorry, I don’t remember exactly where) that leaving out critical successes is part of the play testing process as well, so explicitly leaving them out in an intro game sounds good. I, personally, would make sure to still point them out, but not implement them.
     
  20. LaughinGod

    LaughinGod Well-Known Member
    Warcor

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    OTOH, biggest reason people give for keeping crits in the game is that for some reason we need every pistol equipped schmuck be able to wound/kill a Jotum. If your entire anti TAG/HI gameplan is to have crits against TAG/HI, then it is not a very good gameplan.
     
    Kalendo and WiT? like this.