I’ve posted the concept illustration from Campaign: Paradise for you before. The handheld unit is clearly labeled as both.
My point was that previously this was just the E/Marat. Somewhere along the line it got confused with the Jammer. And there are troopers who are carrying this same item in the new sculpts who have only one or the other.
Not sure sword really works but it is pretty funny to imagine heads exploding because you have a big dish hooked up to a radio. Looks like that somewhere was N3 leaving off the jammer caption. It's not too crazy to imagine the devices look similar or even the same given how both have a fairly similar operating principle.
There's no reason to think that. The description for the E/Marat in the book matches with the depiction on the model, and nowhere does it say that it includes an integral Jammer (and non- Ghazi troops don't have both.) Sometimes I wonder if there was a push to get Jammers out of the game that got quashed, hence the mix up.
There's no confusion - that image is from Campaign: Paradiso, which was the book that both introduced the Jammer and rewrote the E/Marat as an E/M Chain Rifle instead of the god-awful circular template weapon that hit the user that it previously was.
So this is an idea I've been rolling around in my head for a while. It's a consolidation of the current rules for holding against various markers, and also an attempt at a solve for the current stuff you can do with ARO manipulation, stealth, etc. I'm not totally sure it isn't just a bolt-on that's more complicated than the current state of affairs, and as written I think there might still be a hole with an entire enemy link trying to idle-move around a corner, but hey, it's a thought. HOLD ARO Requirements A trooper can only declare Hold if one of the following is true: the trooper has an ARO against an enemy trooper on the table as a marker and not as a model (camouflage, impersonation, holoecho, etc) the trooper has an ARO against an enemy model that is not in their LOF the trooper has an ARO, but not against every currently active enemy model Effects By declaring Hold, a trooper may delay declaring their ARO until a specific condition is met. When declared, the trooper must declare which enemy model or marker they are holding against, and the circumstances under which a Held ARO may be declared. If this circumstance is met, the trooper who declared Hold may declare their ARO. This ARO must follow all the normal rules for AROs. A trooper can declare the following conditions under which to declare a new ARO when they declare Hold: against a marker, Hold until the trooper under the marker declares a skill that would cause the trooper under the marker to be revealed against a trooper acting outside their LOF, Hold until the trooper acting outside their LOF enters LOF against a trooper acting outside their LOF, Hold until the trooper acting outside their LOF declares an attack Examples: A camo marker moves through a reactive trooper's LOF. The reactive trooper declares ‘hold against the camo marker until it reveals’. Camo marker attacks. Holding model now declares BS attack back. A trooper with a hacking device moves outside LOF of a reactive model. Reactive model declares ‘hold against the active enemy until they declare an attack’. Enemy declares hack. Reactive model declares reset. If the active model had not declared an attack (e.g. had declared a move) the reactive model would not be able to declare any ARO. A trooper outside of LOF around a corner from the reactive trooper declares ‘idle’. The reactive trooper declares ‘hold against the active enemy until they enters LOF’. Trooper moves around corner into melee. Declare BS attack ARO. A Hsien warrior in smoke with a haris activates with madtraps moving outside LOF. The reactive trooper has an ARO against the madtraps but not against every active enemy model. Reactive trooper declares ‘hold against Hsien until an attack is declared’. Hsien attacks. Reactive troop declares a BS attack in response.
I fully support this change, "it's always your turn" sounds way less cool when it's followed by "but you are gonna spend the turn change facing" @daboarder what do you think?
The first one then stops you from using the ARO rules to make a move move order though, is that the intent? I think the second needs to read outside LOF but inside ZOC, otherwise it gives an unfair advantage to the player that may not have played the situation as well. I think getting into a troopers backarc is a legitimate strategy.
I'm assuming that an ARO would have to be granted in the first place to invoke these. Otherwise, it's something of a mess.
I think this gives undue strength to cheap units with Chain Rifles and it is my opinion that this is a type of unit that does not need buffing. Example: Epsilon with Marksman Rifle Moves into a Zero Visibility Zone and gains LOF through the smoke on a 45th Highlander, approximately 5" away. Currently: 45th may declare only Change Facing or Reset. Under proposed skill: 45th may declare Hold and then Chain-Colt when Epsilon declares BS Attack. Also keep in mind that unlike previously, declaring Hold will drop a Camo Marker out of Camo State. Currently delaying an ARO will allow you to retain the state if you do not take the shot.
You really needed to pick a model without Sixth Sense for this example mate. More generally: I'm pretty neutral on how powerful ARO manipulation of the sort you're describing is (and by 'pretty neutral' I mean 'I use it a lot and it shits people to tears'), but a lot of people I've spoken to are very down on it. This was generally something of a response to that.
Yep, that's the idea - and why the skill is labelled as an ARO. The drafting was just meant to communicate roughly the intent, it's nowhere near thoroughly proofed.
Do those little f-ers really have Sixth Sense as well!? I hate them so much more now -.-;; Fine, I'll change it to 45th
Yeah. ;-) Apart from Mahtamori's point that declaring Hold would reveal someone from Marker state, there's also... 'I declare Hold'. 'Fine by me. The Mine next to you goes off.'
Run me through the issue here. I'm a bit lost on how this would be different to declaring a foolish ARO while in the trigger area of a mine right now.
Hmm, maybe I didn't give enough context. The reactive trooper is near an enemy Mine. The active trooper is in marker state and LoF, and moves. Under the current rules, the reactive trooper can 'freely' delay their ARO. If the marker moves again, nothing happens. If the marker reveals (for example to shoot), the reactive trooper can still decide what to do, so Dodge, BS Attack, no ARO etc. Under the Hold ARO idea, the trooper sets off the Mine as soon as they declare Hold, letting the marker freely move again, knowing that the reactive trooper has to tank a Mine hit.
For functionality, I'd also have to ask how this handles the single ARO opportunity sequencing. Effectively the trooper declares two AROs or do you maybe intend that the trooper that's Holding has to make a conditional Hold, declaring which skill it is they are "prepping"? Edit: Example: Zhan the Zhanshi hears Minnie the Minuteman moving on the other side of a wall and declares a Hold (BS Attack) targeting Minnie should she reveal herself around the corner. I'd also point out that this elevates the Marker delays to the same level as Sixth Sense, which is that you don't lose your ARO if the enemy didn't reveal. Preferably and considering the wide availability of Sixth Sense in literally all sectorials, it ought to be the other way around, that Sixth Sense Hold gets demoted to targeting a specific enemy trooper and only allowing an ARO using skills previously unavailable. This isn't so much a mechanical topic as it is one of game balance, I think.
