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The definite N4 Comments, Suggestions, Ideas, wishlist's and Bugs that need fixing thread

Discussion in 'Access Guide to the Human Sphere' started by psychoticstorm, Aug 6, 2019.

  1. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Not if my opponent is on their game.
     
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  2. Sabin76

    Sabin76 Well-Known Member

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    Well, he brought up that the issue was an ITS one (Spectral brought up the original thought), not a core rules one... but I should have included him as well since the conversation has seemed to continue.
     
  3. SpectralOwl

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    For clarity I was referring to the arbitrary system of Specialists being units with certain weird skills, not objective manipulation, when I mentioned "Remove Specialists". While it hasn't given me trouble (yet) I've seen players with a year of experience forget that CoC counts for Specialist status, and it's important enough to how the game is designed that it warrants an icon like the Cube or Hackable for quick reference, especially for new players. As for why I'm bringing this up here, it's evident that ITS is being increasingly integrated with the core rules-Army has changed profiles and raised costs on TAGs for an ITS rule, and Specialist Operative is a skill with a points value that is only applicable to ITS missions.
     
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  4. Papa Bey

    Papa Bey Clueless Wonder. Still.

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    I believe that Army is "officially" a tournament validation tool.
     
  5. Armihaul

    Armihaul Well-Known Member

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    Button pushing missions are what made this game interesting. Without them, lots of people will not be playing this now
     
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  6. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    The people who want to play Agricola should just go play Agricola.
     
  7. tox

    tox SorriBarai
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    Or people who want to play grimdork should just go play grimdork
     
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  8. Armihaul

    Armihaul Well-Known Member

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    just propose in your meta to play like you want, with no button pushing missions. It would be not ITS, but if its fun for you, why not play it? You know, that in that kind of meta, lots of things you don't like now, will not be played because they will not be usefull enough, so you might see fewer jammers and so. If that propose is a success, great for you!, and if it is not, you might see why taking out pushing button missions is not a good idea (or more like you will see that the gap between the top and bottom tier factions grow bigger because we are now in a more shotty meta than seasons ago)
     
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  9. nehemiah

    nehemiah Well-Known Member

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    Not sure if this has been brought up before, but I would like if they changed the timing of Change Face, and Reset AROs.

    At the moment is is very counteractive that a unit using Stealth cannot Move-Move into base to base from around a corner into a unit covering that corner without being shot/CCed in return, but if the unit does not use Stealth it can, (using its first Move to trigger a Change Face, and its second move to get base to base).

    What I would propose is that they are not declared until the declaration of the second order, and can only be declared if no other ARO was taken.
     
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  10. Sabin76

    Sabin76 Well-Known Member

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    I mean, if you want a fluff reason for it, think of the stealther tossing a rock (not being stealthy) to draw the guy's attention before swinging around the corner.

    I agree that it's a little convoluted, but I'm not sure how to do it better without changing the entire ARO mechanic.
     
  11. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    The people pushing for noninteractive scenarios have more in common with "grimdork" than those against the braindead button-pushing.
     
  12. Tourniquet

    Tourniquet TJC Tech Support

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    Allow for Delay ARO in the same way you would for a camo marker?
     
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  13. nehemiah

    nehemiah Well-Known Member

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    Not really, Warning falls outside of the ARO mechanic already, and if they changed it as I described it only change the ARO mechanic for those specific AROs.
     
  14. Armihaul

    Armihaul Well-Known Member

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    you are mixing noninteractive with no-ftf rolls. The grimdark game is not a ftf roll, but is interactive in its way, but is more a "go kill your oponent", as all non-button-pushing missions in this game (And as it would end if CB continues the way is doing missions, so you will be happy in the end).

    I must insist, just try it, really, try playing a meta like that during some time. You will not lose anything: if it works, fun! if it does't, you will see why and can return to button-pushing. I only can talk about my experience. I've played in that kind of meta... and seen lots of people leaving the game because it was boring playing always the same mision, seeing how 2-3 factions had the upper hand always, and for playing like that, they had their old grimdark game, were at least they didn't have to learn a lot of complex rules and interactions
     
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  15. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    No, there's a significant difference, in that in that other game very little of it is won or lost on the table, and you don't have to react to what your opponent does. And that's similar to the noninteractive button pushing play where the goal is to not react to your opponent and punish them with Retreat when they try to counterplay you.

    This is an incredibly shortsighted comment because it's sidestepping the fact that there are certain factions which are amazing at noninteractive button pushing styles of play; that isn't good.
     
  16. ijw

    ijw Wargaming Trader, Freelance Editor (UK)
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    How does that help a trooper with Stealth reach combat?
     
  17. Armihaul

    Armihaul Well-Known Member

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    So lets use only FtF roll mechanicks, but only the ones I like because the others are no good. There are a lot of mechanics in the game that are not "interactive" in the way you want, and are good for the game. If you want to defend a console: put someone to deffend it. there you have interactive play. If you win possition, you deserve the console, if enemy does, he deserves. That's how is supposed to be. But seems to me that for you only is "interactive" if you can shot it directly.all the time. There are lots of tools to protect and to take over that console, and some seem non interactive, but they all have counterparts. Jammers? bring a veteran/grenadelauncher (almost everybody has one or both). Smoke? MSV2, minelayers, jammers, hacking. Stealthy guys? 6th sense... everything has a way to deal, and almost all factions have at least one way to deal with any situation, just some have it easier than others and seems to me you want it even easier fot some of them

    no, you just assume that FtF rolls are the only "interactive" way, which is very narrowminded. In those FtF, certain factions are better than the others, and seems as if you just want to get rid of that other part that has problems with those FtF and are forced to other tactics. I just propose you to try it and se how nocive for the game is what you want to bring here.
     
  18. Armihaul

    Armihaul Well-Known Member

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    he should spend some extra orders to get to better position, or to risk to shot, as do almos every trooper
     
  19. ijw

    ijw Wargaming Trader, Freelance Editor (UK)
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    You appear to have missed the rest of the conversation.
     
  20. Armihaul

    Armihaul Well-Known Member

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    I might have missunderstunded him. He wants to do a move-move using stealth to go into melee and not having to suffer a shot, or forcing a change facement before. I only say that he should spend extra orders to:
    • take another route and go from behind
    • use stealth to make caoutious movement and cross the enemy LoV (and again, go from behind)
    • move and shot as everyone else
    • do not use stealth because is an optional skill, and force the chage facement