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The definite N4 Comments, Suggestions, Ideas, wishlist's and Bugs that need fixing thread

Discussion in 'Access Guide to the Human Sphere' started by psychoticstorm, Aug 6, 2019.

  1. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Been mentally toying with this (might've written it down on the forums, but it might also have been something I erased)
    MediKit L0: First Aid - target's PH-3 to recover (or at least Stabilise). Common Short Skill available to Troopers with Regular training on their profile*.
    MediKit L1: MediKit - target's PH-3 to recover, works at range. Doesn't make you a specialist.
    MediKit L2: Medjector - target's PH to recover, works at range. Doesn't make you a specialist.
    Doctor L1: Paramedic - WIP roll to recover
    Doctor L2: Field Surgeon - WIP roll to recover, allows Command Tokens
    Doctor L3: Doctor Plus - WIP+3 to recover, allows Command Tokens.
    Doctor L4: Akbar Doctor - WIP to recover all wounds, allows Command Tokens.

    New Unconscious state "Stabilised". Same as the Unconscious state, including for Coup De Grace, except the soldier gains a +3 MOD to CaseEvac rolls and counts towards Victory Points, but not zone or objective control, and may not receive further Doctor or Medikit attempts. State activates by being the target of a failed MediKit or Doctor attempt.

    Also, MediKits and Doctor Plus should be way more common. Doctor Plus should essentially be used as a short cut or "discount" in order to make a good doctor that's not necessarily very good at pushing buttons. Medikits 0 and 1 aren't great unless the target is McMurrough, but it makes sense that everyone should have this capability, you train soldiers and first responders in providing first aid and basic triage. Basically Doctor L2+ would be what counts as medical personell under 20th century laws of conflict - the non-soldier soldiers you're not allowed to shoot.

    * the presence of Willy Wally doesn't make 45th suddenly carry a first aid kit in their crotch purse, nor makes them aware how to stop lacerations and bleeding.
     
  2. Del S

    Del S Nomadball

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    Interesting, but doesn't need the stabilise bit IMO. Just making regular first aid need to be b2b and -3ph seems fine.

    The medjector AFAIK only exists on Hakims at the moment, so maybe it should be available to Paramedics in Haqq only and Doctors elsewhere for swc?

    Maybe something like an automedikit could exist too, disposable equipment a trooper carries that an ally can use to revive like it was a medjector in b2b? And an automedjector of course...
     
  3. Barrogh

    Barrogh Well-Known Member

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    @Mahtamori
    And one more thing: allow trooper to choose to exit prone state for free upon being healed. Something something non-chaff ARO pieces.
     
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  4. Abrilete

    Abrilete Well-Known Member

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    I like everything, except the Stabilize thing because it requires tracking of the status.
     
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  5. bona

    bona Well-Known Member

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    How about a change to fireteams. What if Core and Harris fireteams were removed. Instead there is a new skill called Officer (one or more unit types). E.g. Officer (Fusilier). A profile will have the skill and general cost more or have a SWC cost. The skill enable the officer to perform a coordinated order with other units of the prescribed types. The officer doesn’t have to be the leader, just part of the order. This skill can be used as often as desired. Other units can still have the “counts as” attribute to enable certain units to join differs officers coordinated order.

    This would weaken fireteams in ARO and eliminate bonuses but provide flexibility with unit placement, flexibility with unit composition on a per order basis (as long as the units correspond with the officer), and may speed up play due to no coherency requirements.

    An additional use of the officer skill could be to give it to all tags. This would allow them to coordinate with their support units. E.g. Officer (fusilier, machinist). This would buff tags efficiency without making them overpowered.




    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
     
  6. Del S

    Del S Nomadball

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    Damage 17 at range and Burst 6 become possible. It's Simple all right. Simple Jack.

    Maybe an interesting variation but to utterly scrap the entire mechanism like that just poses more issues. Like how does wildcard work, how do you reform teams without the officer, what about enomotarchos and triad, special fireteams.
     
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  7. bona

    bona Well-Known Member

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    Could be correct that it’s a major change and maybe unnecessary, just an idea. For your questions, wildcard allows the unit to follow any officer. There is no team to reform, just units with the skill. If they die, no more team. I think they should leave enomotarchos and triad to keep those sectorial’s unique, but that does leave more rules, so?


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
     
  8. Del S

    Del S Nomadball

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    No team to reform means one of the uses of command tokens is gone, though. It also makes Cores and Haris all operate like many existing Haris teams where they only form around someone with the Haris skill in their profile, rather making those that don't need a 0.5SWC Haris Skill member to form become less interesting.

    "Fixing" Fireteams doesn't need huge sweeping changes IMO. Maybe just have it so only the link lead gets a B2 bonus in ARO, but other bonuses apply to other fireteam members, making it a more tactical risk. Have the team maximise ARO, or risk it being broken when they take out the leader who can't be hiding away any more?

    Could also allow link leads to swap in ARO in order to shift the burst, or the AROs of the fireteam cannot exceed a total of BX+1, where X is the number of active members.

    Since the biggest "issues" teams present is burst and the +3 in ARO, maybe those bonuses could be altered to not apply in ARO, at least not together. Anything only taking 1B gets the +3, anything not taking the +3 gets the +1B. Fireteams always have sixth sense L2 in both active and ARO, same size limits needed to access options (meaning smaller teams will always shoot more) or maybe even flip the bonuses around so smaller teams get more accurate?

    Lots of options to make adjustments and changes really.
     
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  9. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Better than Fatality as it exists now imo.
     
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  10. meikyoushisui

    meikyoushisui Competitor for Most Ignored User

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    Mathematically B6 isn't that different than B5 imposing a -3 that can't be cancelled.

    DAM17 is way more consistent and can be dealt with much more reasonably than critting 40% of the time.
     
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  11. Del S

    Del S Nomadball

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    Pfft, 60% of the time you can use numbers to prove anything every time :stuck_out_tongue:

    But if it doesn't really change anything, why change Full Auto and break that taboo of Fearing Six Dice? It also does impose some different factors in that a sixth dice could potentially mean better face to face odds over more targets. It's rather situational but if you have three targets, at least one becomes one on one dice rolls under B5. An extra dice surely must have some mathematical effects too rather than simply the morale effects of being outnumbered so vastly if your poor ARO guy with one shot has to face down a volley of nasty bang bang.

    Perhaps Full Auto 2 could either be ignored by any units with courage, or have a range limitation like suppression fire as an alternative: But that somewhat exposes it to a possible issue in that it becomes a way to bully weaker units only and go cheerleader hunting.

    As for Fatality, it's also tied to crits as the problem. If crits change somehow, does fatality need adjusted? If fatality changes too, does it maybe shift the balance. Plus, DAM17 affects lower ARM all the time, crits affect everything equally. Which, in fairness, does make a bit of sense in that tougher heavier armoured units aren't as easy to take out even for a super-special elite shootydude what can shoot weak spots or whatev, but there's a fair few implications down that road regarding what Fatality becomes more useful for, the same sort of cheerleader bullying bonus that my Full Auto idea above may have.

    It just seems to me the deeper this one goes it could become more complicated and have other odd rules interactions. They can be thrashed out, sure, but it doesn't really seem like it'll really shift much other than make Fatality let tougher units survive a bit easier and let Full Auto possibly take on half the enemy army in one burst.
     
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  12. meikyoushisui

    meikyoushisui Competitor for Most Ignored User

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    I know you're being tongue in cheek, but there are people literally in this thread who believe that statistical analysis should never be applied to unit or rules design in the game.

    For consistency? Having two levels of a skill with only two levels do completely different things is not a good rule.

    Except also imposing -3. You'll actually see that the current version of Full Auto is stronger and stronger the more you split burst (Because B1 with a -3 shooting five times is better than B1 with no negative mod shooting 6).

    Again, it's about consistency. I don't care if Full Auto L2 stays in the game, but it should have a different name than Full Auto. I don't think Fatality 2 should be in the game at all, but if its to stay, it should have a different name. This is also why I think Mimetism should be rolled out of Camouflage, for example, and into the ODD rule instead, with Camo granting Mimetism (I personally don't see an issue with nested rules personally, but we already see this pattern really frequently with Limited Camo + Mimetism.)
     
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  13. Barrogh

    Barrogh Well-Known Member

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    Which will affect interaction of ODD and TO units with Fire ammo, as it stands right now.
     
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  14. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Why do you seem to certain that units with B4+ weapons would get Full Auto 2 if it grants +2 burst? It's a new build of the game and Kriza might not have Full-Auto at all.
     
  15. Del S

    Del S Nomadball

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    True - but given half the point the Greasy Borat has is it brings full auto, removing it entirely seems like a hell of an overreaction to a perceived disadvantage it forces. Why not simply add in ways to counter it since people's main issues are there's no way to avoid the - 3. Issues people don't seem to have with suppression fire thanks to the way that requires activation and a rangeband, so surely the fix would be better aimed at removing the issue rather than shifting the goalposts?

    And if it's a new build we might well ask "why isn't b6 going to be a thing anyway"? Hell, what if this does happen and a new skill called something like Wall of Lead is added to grant the -3, the Kriza getting it alongside FA1 on the HMG, but FA2 on everything else? What if Full Auto is scrapped entirely and weapons themselves get a "rapid" upgrade to be increased bursts on the weapon itself while full auto is replaced by the -3 skill only?


    Consistency is fine, but it just seems that your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn’t stop to think if they should.
     
    #1115 Del S, Oct 21, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2019
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  16. Armihaul

    Armihaul Well-Known Member

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    there are factions that cannot avoid completelly the -6 of TO or ODD, why should there be a way to deal against that -3? Also, the tools used against those -6 are valid against FA2 too.
     
  17. Del S

    Del S Nomadball

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    You have something of a point - Ariadna cannot into MSV2 after all. Plus, right now one army has got a pseudocounter to the Kriza - The CA. Just use a Sogarat Feuerbach. Fight Fire with Feuer.
     
  18. Armihaul

    Armihaul Well-Known Member

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    if we count the -3 from another FA as a somewhat-counter, then any camo or TO could be one too.

    All things related to full auto were poorly done, from the dessign (could have been double weapon + mimetism, the provabilities are very similar, I think is a bit cheaper, and nobody would have argued) to the "reasons" for the nerf ("its like suppresive fire, but now we are giving it to weapons that cannot do suppresive fire, neither before or after getting full auto")
     
  19. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    I think the Kriza is a fine and besides that it is well worth its points, I don't think people have a problem with the Kriza so much as that the skill's layout is... dumb. Say for example that a new skill called... Saturation, maybe, is introduced the Kriza could be morphed into Full-Auto L1 and Saturation L1 and retain the current functionality and I think people would be satisfied. But I might be interpreting them wrong.
    I mean my only personal reservation about the Kriza is that it's better than the Yan Huo in every single way, be it movement, melee, ability to take a hit, or ability to deal damage at any given range for just 1 point more. But that's more to do with how weirdly expensive the Yan Huo is.
     
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  20. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    What if ARO halved burst instead of set it to 1? Currently I often feel like setting troopers up for ARO is an act of futility unless they have certain specific abilities which makes them decent for it.

    Naturally, this absolutely has to go hand-in-hand with an increase in "chaff unit" price increase because each body becomes more valuable.
     
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