1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Hemos actualizado nuestra Política de Privacidad acorde con la nueva RGPD. +Info // We've updated our Privacy Policy to comply with the GDPR. +Info
    Dismiss Notice

The definite N4 Comments, Suggestions, Ideas, wishlist's and Bugs that need fixing thread

Discussion in 'Access Guide to the Human Sphere' started by psychoticstorm, Aug 6, 2019.

  1. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    4,558
    Likes Received:
    4,433
    Higher than most things, but the Speculo or whatever still has the active turn advantage and can probably leverage cover with how fat the Alpha is.
     
    theradrussian likes this.
  2. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    6,056
    Likes Received:
    7,592
    Large base doesn't mean Speculo is able to get cover, it means the Alpha has a harder time finding Total Cover and in fairly rare cases have a hard time finding Partial Cover.

    Sounds like your problem isn't the BioV, but the Speculo or possibly Impersonation. BioV on the Alpha combined with Guard 4 reduces the Speculo to a line of engagement better suited for a Fraacta, so for a 26/0 model this 1 point skill does an admirable job, undeniably. But for a Black Friar or Bao trying to protect their respective LT from a Speculo, it does fuck-all except create a fairly expensive cheerleader because of Impersonation's two layers.
     
    SpectralOwl and eciu like this.
  3. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    3,485
    Likes Received:
    4,044
    It could be fun if Biometric Visor also prevented Impersonator being deployed in it's LoF/ZoC...
     
    yoink101, Barrogh, Berjiz and 4 others like this.
  4. Abrilete

    Abrilete Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2017
    Messages:
    1,954
    Likes Received:
    2,571
    Love that suggestion, very interesting idea for creating a "bubble" your Lt. or any important piece.
     
  5. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    3,485
    Likes Received:
    4,044
    It's still not a 100% (as Impersonator usallly have a 12-16" "safe movement guaranteed" option) but it creates some counterplay/dynamic with Impersonators and Biometric Visors....
     
    theradrussian and Abrilete like this.
  6. Abrilete

    Abrilete Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2017
    Messages:
    1,954
    Likes Received:
    2,571
    That's the reason why I liked so much your suggestion: it's not an "autowin" button against Impersonators, just a way to change their deployment and how they approach their intended target. Right now if you have an obvious Lt., it doesn't matter how well you protect it, it more or less comes down to a dice roll that decides if it lives or dies.
     
    yoink101 likes this.
  7. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    3,485
    Likes Received:
    4,044
    Only thing you can kinda do is a body block (for example I did it with Magisters and Joan), but not every faction can do that reliably.
     
  8. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    6,056
    Likes Received:
    7,592
    I think the problem with Impersonation is these three qualities; it is the only skill that reliable deploys on opponent's side and can deploy in opponent's DZ, it is the only state with two layers forcing several consecutive orders worth of Discover ARO, and it is absurdly cheap.

    Remove the first and you'll cause assassination runs to be as order intensive as with the more expensive TO+Infiltration combination. Remove the second and you'll make it somewhat more possible to defend against considering deploying right next to your target becomes less attractive. Fix the last and you'll make sacrificial suicide runs much less desirable and force the quality of the prey tomatch better.
    Fix more than one and you just risk making these units pointless.

    And I think it is a problem because the presence of these units further pushes the game towards using large quantities of lower quality units. It is, to put it bluntly, stupid to play TAG-centric or quality LTs when you risk meeting CA, HB, Haqq or Shas (unless such units are capable of defending against Speculos, such as being a Cutter, Sun Tze or or similar)
     
    Belgrim, WiT?, Berjiz and 1 other person like this.
  9. Sabin76

    Sabin76 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    1,151
    Likes Received:
    1,390
    I actually like this a lot as well. The problem that still needs to be addressed, however, is what happens when the Impersonator has already been deployed because you held back your BMV troop as a reserve?

    I could see it not being retroactive (i.e. it must be deployed first to take advantage of it's own Zone of Control). Which means you absolutely want to deploy it regularly.
     
    Hecaton and ChoTimberwolf like this.
  10. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    3,485
    Likes Received:
    4,044
    How it is working now if the enemy camo deploys in trigger range of your own mine ?
     
    meikyoushisui and Abrilete like this.
  11. Sabin76

    Sabin76 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    1,151
    Likes Received:
    1,390
    You mean perimeter weapon? I don't think there's anything funky with deploying in the trigger area of a mine since a minelayer can deploy said mine with as many enemy troops in its trigger area as it wants.
     
  12. Abrilete

    Abrilete Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2017
    Messages:
    1,954
    Likes Received:
    2,571
    Precisely, you lost your chance and now have to deal with the consecuences.
    Just like Tohaa's Symbiomates: if you want to protect a trooper, you must deploy it before you deploy the Kaeltar Specialist and without Marker state.
     
    Barrogh and Sabin76 like this.
  13. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2017
    Messages:
    5,791
    Likes Received:
    9,124
    Huh, so they did... :embarrassed:

    Says something about how often I use Shikami...
     
  14. SpectralOwl

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2018
    Messages:
    534
    Likes Received:
    841
    Bear in mind, that's pressure on an opponent deploying first to not reserve an Impersonator since they may lose access to important areas. If you have sealed buildings on the board, if the enemy gets a Biovisor in there under this proposed rule before you have a chance to get an Impersonator in the building then you lose the chance to get your heavily-weighted free CC attack against anything inside due to how slow it is to work Gates.
     
    Section9, Barrogh and Abrilete like this.
  15. Rocker

    Rocker Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2018
    Messages:
    52
    Likes Received:
    26
    New strategic use of command token: Spend a command token to put X number of troops in Suppressive fire state.

    X could be adjusted for balance, I'm thinking 2 or 3. If needed, further restrictions could be put, for example no troops with swc are allowed/only LI.

    This is an attempt at balancing the alpha strike potential some lists have, and rendering the best part of Infinity games mechanic (ARO's) more usable. I could also see this as being a general rule for the second player, i.e. no command token cost.
    (Epic Armageddon had a similar rule back in the days, where you could "garrison" certain troops, granting them forward deploy and overwatch)
     
  16. Barrogh

    Barrogh Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2017
    Messages:
    1,858
    Likes Received:
    1,586
    Speaking of quality defense, as opposed to drowning order pools in bodies...

    IMO Sapper needs to become more practical.

    I would like them to drop Silhouette change (for reasons of convenience and to open up more units for Sapper profiles) and allow units with it to enter Foxhole any time they declare suppression, and maybe vica versa. The first one is to allow sappers to benefit from their skill when they are part of coordinated suppression. The second one would, depending on working, allow them to begin the match in SF, if you feel that would be a good idea.

    Tbh I wanted that stuff (and Sapper proper, ofc) for 360 visor Maghariba Guard at some point, but we've got Mine Dispenser instead. Neat thing, but I feel that robs Morat TAG of its uniqueness, as well as results in missing the opportunity to up-play theme of that 360 thing, for what it's worth.

    Edit: and while we are at it, I'd like to see all deployable planting Skills to be combined into a single one, as well as all "hide into a marker" skills (or at least just camo markers).

    And maybe rename "Skill" (aka something you declare) into something else so that it isn't confused with special skills.

    Aaaaand maybe start moving towards using keywords and terms in general instead of writing every rule as a special snowflake. Ofc we'll need a Glossary for that.
     
    #876 Barrogh, Sep 18, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2019
    Berjiz likes this.
  17. yoink101

    yoink101 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2018
    Messages:
    262
    Likes Received:
    315
    Yeah, I’m saying it need waaaay more than that. It needs to actually be useful against impersonation.

    That’s an idea!
     
    Abrilete and theradrussian like this.
  18. yoink101

    yoink101 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2018
    Messages:
    262
    Likes Received:
    315
    If you want to reduce the alpha strike potential, reduce the max size of the combat groups to six or seven. Suppression fire is only mildly useful against most alpha strike models.

    I like the idea though.
     
  19. Alphz

    Alphz Kuang Shi Vet. Retired.

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2017
    Messages:
    1,070
    Likes Received:
    2,102
    Re: smoke and white noise

    I hope N4 completely removes total LOF blocking zones except maybe eclipse (which blocks everyone) and just made any reactions through them at severe penalties, gradually reduced by visors.

    Then stop sixth sense randomly cancelling the those penalties.

    Visors would immediately be worth their price again. Reactive link teams drop in universal effectiveness and smoke throwing warbands are no longer invincible
     
    Belgrim, Section9, Sedral and 2 others like this.
  20. Del S

    Del S Nomadball

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2017
    Messages:
    886
    Likes Received:
    1,987
    Like, if it was always -9? You can shoot, ARO, but it's now -3 more for reacting to smoke fire?

    Maybe that could let MSV1 be only -3 through smoke, 2 and 3 ignore it, and sixth sense allows the user to be at -6 instead now?