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The definite N4 Comments, Suggestions, Ideas, wishlist's and Bugs that need fixing thread

Discussion in 'Access Guide to the Human Sphere' started by psychoticstorm, Aug 6, 2019.

  1. SpectralOwl

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    Sorry, wasn't clear in your post. That definitely would be a good way to restore the fear of fire for Tohaa.
     
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  2. TheRedZealot

    TheRedZealot Well-Known Member
    Warcor

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    In my experience Fire is plenty good against Tohaa now, it just penalized the multi wound symbiotes too much and the single wound symbiotes not enough.
     
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  3. Nathonicus

    Nathonicus Well-Known Member

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    I really appreciate your analysis and effort in presenting it! I think it's a very well thought-out read. I am mostly in agreement, especially with the aspects of the game that are actually imbalanced or unfun, vs. just strong or weak for a reason.

    A few stand outs for me:
    • Strategic command allows spending orders by player 2: LOVE this idea. I don't know how well it would present for new players, but I think it goes even further towards fixing the 1st turn advantage. Command tokens in general were a good step this direction, I think having this as an additional option is a great idea.
    • Camo Fix: I have to agree that camo/marker state when spammed is too darn strong. Also, it is very easy to force bad decisions onto your opponent with loads of camo. That's part of the mind games that makes infinity great, but when you have 6 camo tokens in each group, it's not really a mind game, just a load of unrewarding options for the opponent. SLOWED MOVEMENT ON MARKER is a great idea. After all, you are supposed to be hiding/pretending to be bob from accounting. "Why is bob running this way in a dead sprint?" MSV3 could also use a boost. Perhaps allowing discover+shoot as a short skill for MSV3, so you could do it twice in a big field of camo markers.
    • Smoke Changes: I think that smoke in general is fine as is. I do wish MSV1 could see through it. I think that if you fixed some of the problems with spammed warbands, it wouldn't need tinkering.
    • Specific Points Imbalances: Proxies, symbiont armor,mutts, it all needs tinkering with.
    Thanks again for your write up. I hope it gets read and considered by CB.

    Also, on that note - big thanks to CB for a game that is continuously improving! This is by far my favorite minis game.
     
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  4. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Ok, so the ability to selectively put extra wounds on 2 other profiles should be worth more than 10 points.
     
  5. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    The problem is that the troops they have available to them aren't necessarily equal in terms of scope or power to other factions'.
     
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  6. Solar

    Solar Well-Known Member

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    The problem is more that people think they know everything and that if they don't immediately get everything out of a troop it's crap rather than trying to make it work or realising it's not for their playstyle.

    Arguing constantly over the minutiae of points costs is one of the most consistently irritating part of this community recently.

    If this sounds like "I'm sick of all this whinging" that's because it absolutely is
     
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  7. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    I think people put too much stock in "playstyle" when what they're really talking about is "power level." (MO vs. VIRD for example)

    And the points costs are really one of the ways in which the game is out of whack atm, so it's relevant.
     
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  8. Doom

    Doom Member

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    I don't think it is really play style, but rather the need for some things to be practiced because they may be more complex or harder to utilize than others. With practice however, rules or abilities that initially seemed worthless can suddenly become the cornerstone of a strategy. (Or at least a part of it). I love the massive amount of options in this game and am a bit nervous about what N4 will bring. I hope they don't make things too simple. Not all things in this game are created equal, which I believe is perfectly acceptable, as a brawler can still put a wound on just about anything.

    In terms of power creep, the only thing I've ever encountered that "felt bad" while playing was the linked Kamau. Even there, I went home and developed new ways to solve the problem. I keep them up my sleeve for future games.

    A couple funny (imo) notes ...

    lol.

    For all the time you spent writing about how jammers are broken, you could have been toying with new solutions to the "problem". Maybe its just because I play DBS, but 3 of my main opponents are Haqq players and they've literally never ruined one of my games with Jammers. Tarik is a bit scarier but he seems to actually just die to a linked multi-sniper.

    My solutions:
    Bring a lgl - CB seems to be making these more widely available, if not downright encouraging more play with them. Shoot the jammer or something close by from a distance.

    Set up proper AROs - Ghazi at least are impetuous right? Force your opponent to spend orders to cancel orders and/or make them wake into kill box. The points cost on these little buggers is what I think hangs up most people, but I would never really value them above maybe 10-15 points. They just don't get enough done.

    Bring Veterans - they don't care. Units like Druze actually have decent armor too, so you can take a hit as you dish out your own. This seems in line with other warbands (like the one Yu Jing has).

    Mines eat up warbands.

    Not trying to shoot you down or anything. I totally get that a good player, with some lucky/unlucky rolls and supporting terrain can make units like ghazi a headache to deal with. I just personally find that to be a hugely entertaining part of this game :) Also, you know, D20s always allow some crazy sh** to happen.

    *I also like when my badass mercs are mowing down the crazy fanatics running through a city. Very cinematic and bad guy scary.
     
    A Mão Esquerda likes this.
  9. TheRedZealot

    TheRedZealot Well-Known Member
    Warcor

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    Maybe? If you could freely selectively put wounds on any profile it would definitely need to be more expensive than any standard wound on its own.

    But Mates are restricted right now, have specific timings that can make things awkward and the extra wounds are not as durable as a standard wound. How much does the ability to assign them outweigh the other drawbacks they have vs. standard wounds? I dont have a specific answer.
     
  10. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    The ability to assign them definitely outweighs their other drawbacks. You can put it on the best gunfighter in your army (Sukeul). How much would an extra wound be worth on that guy?
     
  11. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    None of those approaches really work against the situation of "Ghazi hanging out behind a wall near the objective" problem. Except for Veterans, but not every faction gets those.
     
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  12. TheRedZealot

    TheRedZealot Well-Known Member
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    I'm not clear what you're trying to bait/corner me into here. Are you trying to get me to say that mates are massively undercosted? Or what?
     
  13. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Yes, I'm saying they're massively undercosted (for a hypothetical +1 wound version).
     
  14. TheRedZealot

    TheRedZealot Well-Known Member
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    You understand that when rules change typically the rules are reviewed for costing and profiles adjusted accordingly right?
     
  15. DukeofEarl

    DukeofEarl Well-Known Member

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    Might want to clam your bias towards Hecaton down a bit, RZ. Pretty sure he's agreeing with your initial point (sorry got the quotes backwards)
     
    #675 DukeofEarl, Aug 29, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2019
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  16. TheRedZealot

    TheRedZealot Well-Known Member
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    I dont think we're in complete agreement, I dont think that a symbiomate that provides a wound is just as good as he seems to feel it is.

    But you're right I am behaving with a bias and its best I step back for abit.

    Edit: Also @Hecaton also apologies no reason for me to behave boorishly.
     
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  17. Doom

    Doom Member

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    Isn't that exactly what a lgl can solve? can shoot around corners and everything with indirect fire. Not every faction has Sepsitor or units like the Umbra Samaritan either. That doesn't automatically make something broken. I might be missing something, but I just can't really see the argument.
     
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  18. Spinnaker

    Spinnaker Vanguard Officer

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    On top of this, I'm not against bringing back the ability of supressive fire to shoot through smoke - possibly also at a -3 penalty?
     
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  19. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Spec Fire is really bad at doing those kinds of things, and can be quite order intensive to do so. That still makes the Ghazi or Jammer-equipped troop disproportionately effective; the counterplay is too costly (in terms of orders, and frequently points and SWC).
     
  20. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    I don't think you were being boorish I think we were just trying to understand each other.
     
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