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The definite N4 Comments, Suggestions, Ideas, wishlist's and Bugs that need fixing thread

Discussion in 'Access Guide to the Human Sphere' started by psychoticstorm, Aug 6, 2019.

  1. Armihaul

    Armihaul Well-Known Member

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    in active, hacking against TAGs is mostly a waste of orders, only useful if the hacker had other things to do there (mission), or if the TAG player moved it wrongly. The little advantage against TAGs is in ARO, where there is no "soon to be" token to free him from possession (after spending orders positioning and trying to hack, there would be not much remaining there), and resset is not free. Nerfing hacking (when actually is more in the underperforming part, as a weapon) is just buffing TAGs for free, specially when hacking is not a real problem against TAGs at the moment, only a little nuisance
     
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  2. Anansi

    Anansi Achilles' Thigh Oiler

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    It seems to me like the main problem to buffing all Tags is that anything you do on one end of the point spectrum buffs the other end. Enhancements to Scarface give enhancements to the Avatar, for example.

    So why not split them into Light Tag and Heavy Tag troop classification?
     
  3. Armihaul

    Armihaul Well-Known Member

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    just fix each TAG independently. No one is waiting for a fix on vainilla HI with an overal rule for all HI, so why is needed a fix like that for TAGs? There are some TAGs that have uses, some are rarelly picked, some are picked more usually, and also there are TAGs that don't have a role/use, just a bigger gun. CB should bring a use for each one, like they try to do with any other troop in the game.
     
  4. Lothlanathorian

    Lothlanathorian Not a custom title

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    Quoting because I can't like it twice.
     
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  5. miguelbarbo84

    miguelbarbo84 New Member

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    Hi there, guess suggestions like this have been already covered (sry, no time to read every post), but what I'd really like to see is a better balance between "spammy" and 1-group lists. I think point costs are -more or less- balanced by stats+skills, but not by order generation, and at the end more peole lean to longer lists. Which, at least for me, it's a pity because in the end I end up playing less.

    I thought of two possible suggestions:
    1st : make order generation a parameter linked to each specific profile instead of unit (much like the points, or the CAP). Then, try to balance around a ratio of 30pts=1 reg. order

    or

    2nd: get rid of tactical awareness, etc. and create a new skill (could be called "Efficiency") which adds:
    EFFL1: +1 irregular order
    EFFL2: +1 regular order
    EFFL3: +1 regular order +1irregular order
    EFFL4: +2 regular order
    EFFL5: +2 regular order +1irregular order
    then distribute at convenience, also looking to have the more expensive units generate more orders.
     
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  6. rhelyk

    rhelyk Active Member

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    One of the things I've always hated is how LTs work. N3 made it far less punishing than N2 to lose one, but the whole "hide the LT, guess the LT" portion of the game has NEVER been very fun or interesting and if you play a lot then there's a lot of armies where an experienced player will simply just know who the enemy LT is. There's a bunch of repeated profiles in the Armybuilder and they're all over the place as to what costs an extra SWC. I say ditch it, that's some streamlining I'd like to see, LT profiles to just go away completely.

    Instead, make LTs just a model you nominate during army construction as open info and he provides an extra regular order so long as he's alive. Open info is important here, lose him and you've lost both his normal order and the extra LT order. No loss of LT, no nominating a new LT or playing hidden info games around who it may or may not be, especially since experienced players will already practically know who the enemy LT is for many of the games anyways. There's still incentive to kill the enemy LT, you cost them 2 orders for losing a single model, and incentive to keep them safe for the same reason, but it's not some magic meta game like it is now

    LT lvl2, NCO, Exec Order and Chain of Command would all need to be adjusted but that's easy enough to do, same for the special abilities you get for Joan of Arc or Sun Tze being your LT, and missions like Hunting Party and such can easily be adjusted as well
     
  7. n21lv

    n21lv SymbioHate

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    Another thing just came to my mind. Any weapons (Mines, Perimeter Weapons etc, let's call them Proximity Weapons for simplicity) that have a Trigger Area must use the same framework for their rules and this framework must clearly describe the correct order of triggering a Proximity Weapon. Current rules are extremely vague on this topic. E.g. rules for Mines state that once an enemy figure or Marker declares or executes an Order or ARO inside their Trigger Area, Mines must trigger and Perimeter Weapons must declare Boost, but nowhere the rules describe:
    - when do you check if Trigger Area of the Proximity Weapon was actually violated;
    - what happens if, during the Resolution step of an Order, you find that Trigger Area wasn't violated (is the Camo Token representing the Mine revealed, is the Proximity Weapon spent etc.);
    - what happens when multiple enemy troops or Markers enter or pass through the Trigger Area of a Perimeter Weapon at the same time (via Coordinated Order, as part of a Fireteam or Synchronized unit etc.) -- how and when targets are chosen, what if the chosen target didn't actually enter/pass throught the Perimeter Weapon's Trigger Area etc.
     
  8. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    Hrm. Good point.

    I don't know of any TAGs that have Tinbot B, so I would just bump any TAG with ECM+Tinbot A up to having ECM+Tinbot B/Deflector L2.



    As noted, disabling their hacking device isn't a good idea.

    Autoroll 7 against Stunned, maybe? Don't want it too powerful, but I do want it useful/interesting.
     
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  9. Teslarod

    Teslarod Trebuchet Enthusiast

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    The one place where Symbiomates and their mechanics would be appreciated would be on (Heavy)TAGs.
    It's the only troop where a mechanic that's effectively ablative shielding makes sense... and they're also very squishy compared to their point costs in the current environment, so they could use a hand. It would also set them apart from high end HI.
    Giving TAGs the ability to shrug off lucky Flash Pulses and MSR Stun rounds as well as letting them survive at least one hit with a Monoweapon is the one place where Total Immunity makes sense.

    Something should happen with the relative cost of certain weapons as well. While I think the common Combi Rifle is a very versatile and useful weapon to have on the board, It's unreasonable that X-Visor+SMG performs better and is still cheaper. SMGs might need their "light Multi" stripped and or DAM value reduced. Would also be nice to have a few variations of the weapon type, the same way Rifles have AP/Shock/Multi/Breaker variants.
    Overlapping weapon sets should always get a slight discount, Combi+LSG/Assaultpistol, Feuerbach+HMG. Certain weapontypes need some help with their pricing or mechanics. Looking at Ojotniks, MK12s, Sniper Rifle class weponry and Combi Rifles they could use some help next to other guns in their pircerange. The easiest to adjust would be Rangebands. Some generous use of +0 bands can make a surprising difference

    Something needs to happen with Smoke. The Sixth Sense, Special Dodge, Stealth and CC rule interactions are a mess.
    Same thing for Stealth with the FAQ, it's way too abuseable for someone who knows how to exploit it.

    Jammers are an obvious candidate for a mechanical change and so is Killer and Assault Hacking. Balance is out of wack and needs attention.
    KDH Programs all -1 DAM while making AHDs a point cheaper and granting them Brainblast and Lockpicker would be a start (while also making sure Lockpicker is useful in missions).

    Pricing tables need an overhaul. Certain stuff should simply cost more/less to represent it's game impact if it stays the way it is. A Grenzer or Orc can't be as expensive as they are in a game with any claim to balance.

    Camo is oddly enough okay in my book. Almost every Faction has access to some level of it and the most broken troops with it have some other bullshit going on.

    Beyond general rule changes for everyone each and every Faction needs some attention and tweaking to align their powerlevels. Even the best Factions and Sectorials have a bunch of bodies that wouldn't break anything if they were good enough to compete with the staple troops outperforming them.
    Diversifying literal Carbon copies beyond +/-1 WIP/PH/ARM with a DTW option, unique piece of gear or unusual weapon loadout for a 2nd class Specialist like a Paramedic would go a long way.

    The biggest physical change I would like to see is to enforce the use of terrain rules for ITS tables. Not a fixed amount of each certain type, but a minimum of Zones or terrain pieces from a pool of options.
    At least 2+ Zones per table:
    1+ of them either "Difficult Terrain/Saturation/Low Visibility"
    and 0-1 of them "White Noise/Zero Visibility/Eclipse"

    The Zone's shape, type and location can be mission dependant but doesn't have to, surprise me CB.
     
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  10. n21lv

    n21lv SymbioHate

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    This sparked an idea in my head: what if some TAGs got access to Advanced Firewalls that acted somewhat like Electric Pulse + Flash Pulse against Hackers. I see it working like this:

    ADVANCED FIREWALL

    (ARO, Comms Attack, No Roll)
    Requirements: The Trooper must be a target of a Comms Attack.
    Effects:
    • This Comms Equipment works automatically. Each time its use is declared, it is always considered that its user obtained a result of 7, so the player is not required to roll anything. This automatic result is always considered successful, regardless the WIP Attribute value of the bearer.
    • If the opponent fails the Face to Face Roll against the automatic result of 7, they enter the Haywire state, placing the corresponding Haywire Marker.
    • This Technical Weapon does not apply Critical Hits, which it considers a normal success.
    • This Technical Weapon does not allow either the user or their adversaries to apply any MOD to the WIP Attributes when performing the Face to Face WIP Roll from any rule, Special Skill, weapon, or piece of Equipment.

    HAYWIRE
    Activation:

    • The trooper suffered a successful Attack using Special Ammunition or Equipment capable of causing this state.
    • The trooper suffered the effect of a piece of scenery or a Special Scenario Rule or condition capable of causing this state.
    Effects:
    • Troopers in this state cannot declare Comms Attacks.
    • All of the trooper's pieces of Equipment with the Comms Equipment Trait temporarily stop working and cannot be used until the state is cancelled.
    Cancellation:
    • The Haywire state is automatically cancelled at the end of the Player Turn during which it was caused.
    • The affected trooper may cancel this state via a successful Reset, applying a MOD of -3.
     
  11. Berjiz

    Berjiz Active Member

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    Instead of a straight up defensive bonus for the tags what if it was easier suppor the tag with your own hackers. Such as allowing friendly hackers to defend the tag like a mini repater for instance.
     
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  12. gregmurdock

    gregmurdock Extremely Beloved Member

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    One of my biggest hopes is reconsider SWC costs across the board. Like there's no reason for the Spec Sgt MSV2 Spitfire to pay 1.5. Maybe if it was linkable. Redfury being a Spitfire with "better" range bands and shock but one less damage is 1 for everyone? There's so many weird costs on LTs too. Like I understand that LTs with visual mods or units that aren't "up to it" like Moderators in generic Nomads (2!) costing SWC was a thing back when. These days visual mods are everywhere. What does a generic Nomads list get by spending 2 SWC on a moderator LT vs 1 on an Alguaciles or 0 on a Securitate? If it's such a punishment don't even let the moderator have the option. Fluff reasons for these kinds of costs are dumb.
     
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  13. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    That could also work, I'm mostly thinking in terms of Ghost in the Shell SAC Ep2, where the Major can't hack open runaway tank without the barrier deactivation code. (Ghost in the Shell being a very big influence on the game)
     
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  14. Tourniquet

    Tourniquet TJC Tech Support

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    depends on the program you are using, if you are trying to possess/eject the pilot or oblivion then yes it is more than likely a waste of orders or desperation. If you are throwing icebreaker, stop!, carbonite or basilisk you'll be fine. it may be slightly less efficient but you can get it done with the order efficiency as if you were throwing some extra smoke or the like.

    If LT's added nothing to game I'd agree with you (which they kind of are at the moment with the proliferation of CoC), but as it stands LoL is one of the few rubber band mechanics that are in the game currently in that you can reduce the effectiveness of or lock your opponent out of their next turn as a way to try a squeeze out a win by making a mad rush for scenario.

    Cheaper yes, Brainblast no. If you want a way to f2f incoming SWORD programs with a AHD with no mods that stops the enemy hacker that already exists in the forma of Blackout. AHDs not having having SWORD programs(Deva excepted) seems to be a deliberate design choice for the game. What would be more interesting would be if they fixed the SHIELD programs and gave the AHD access to Breakwater and/or Counterstrike. Also if Redrum was just removed from the game things would balance out better.

    Basically everyone becomes the Iguana. The only issue here is that it requires people to learn hacking and build lists accordingly which the majority of the time people are extremely reluctant to do, because they would much prefer to throw HMG rounds at the target and cry when when their robot gets bricked.



    Additionally, TAGs have to compete with fireteams these days as a core team with a vis mod halfway decent to good BS that with the bonuses at comparable costs you gets something that is harder to take down, shoots better, throws more dice and provides 4 more orders.
     
  15. RobertShepherd

    RobertShepherd Brisk antipodean

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    Another little suggestion: it'd be kind of nice for Kinematika to also apply to movements made as part of guts rolls. Basically everyone I've ever seen learn the game assumes that it does.

    Edit: in fact (per below discussion) just extend this to 'make guts movement as consistent as possible with dodge movement'.
     
    #635 RobertShepherd, Aug 29, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2019
  16. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Eh, I dunno if I like that. People should just read the rules.
     
  17. Spinnaker

    Spinnaker Vanguard Officer

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    I think I'd like to see more of an emphasis put on the "high-tech" nature of TAGs and HI in general - both unit types should get more than just "high armour, lots of wounds". For ORC troops for example, I'd like to see them get access to toolbox skills and equipment, a la bolts, to represent their training instead of just having good BS - what if ORCs had access to CoC, FastPandas, Sensors, etc?

    TAGs should be more than just giant gun platforms, they should be carrying around an arsenal of high tech equipment that helps them take control of the board. I think that giving the mine dispenser + heavy shotgun profile for the Raicho was a good example of this - it thematically fits the army and allows you to approach problems from ways other than just "I shoot you with a multi hmg". The Iguana is already interesting with its repeater, but what if we really leaned into that hacking aspect and gave it a heavy pitcher with burst 2 or better rangebands? What about a detachable drone similar to the FastPanda that instead turns into a warcor style flash pulse user?
     
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  18. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    @Spinnaker That reminds me, they really should make it so you can place Mines, including Drop Bears and Mine Dispensers, with camo tokens in their area of effect. Camo needs more counters.
     
  19. n21lv

    n21lv SymbioHate

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    On the other hand, you always get a flat 2" Move no matter what, including being Prone. I'd rather keep that than get an occasional 1..2" bonus.
     
  20. RobertShepherd

    RobertShepherd Brisk antipodean

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    That's something else I'd change. Basically, make guts movement generally consistent with dodge movements. Weird little nuances make the game that much harder to learn, so you need a strong justification for them existing. Sometimes that justification exists, but I don't think it does for guts movement.
     
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