1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Hemos actualizado nuestra Política de Privacidad acorde con la nueva RGPD. +Info // We've updated our Privacy Policy to comply with the GDPR. +Info
    Dismiss Notice

The definite N4 Comments, Suggestions, Ideas, wishlist's and Bugs that need fixing thread

Discussion in 'Access Guide to the Human Sphere' started by psychoticstorm, Aug 6, 2019.

  1. RobertShepherd

    RobertShepherd Brisk antipodean

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2018
    Messages:
    1,060
    Likes Received:
    1,715
    Oh lord yes there was so much about b5 Sheshkiin and Tarik. Now look at Shasvastii and Ramah: both considered challenging lists (with strengths, but challenging) and the fatalocalypse a quietly unspoken-about embarassing memory.
     
    melkiach likes this.
  2. meikyoushisui

    meikyoushisui Competitor for Most Ignored User

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2017
    Messages:
    1,379
    Likes Received:
    1,878
    I really can't think of any players I know locally who play very well or even any of the stronger ITS players I'm acquainted with holding either of the opinions about Morats or Chaksas.
     
    melkiach likes this.
  3. RobertShepherd

    RobertShepherd Brisk antipodean

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2018
    Messages:
    1,060
    Likes Received:
    1,715
    The chaksas one is old - before my current time too, although it rings a distant bell from one of the times I tried and failed to learn Infinity as a younger and less patient man :)
     
    Abrilete likes this.
  4. Vaulsc

    Vaulsc Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2017
    Messages:
    94
    Likes Received:
    280


    Could I say that my view on Suryat and IA Tac-aware teams was that: in fact they would not go on to be OP (because of the hard-counters to that general strategy), but that I disagreed with the threat-ranges made possible by Tac-aware because it would be oppressive to players who happened to have no counters, in particular newer players who would be turned off the game by the one-sided defeats that these lists can potentially dish out.
     
    RobertShepherd likes this.
  5. CabalTrainee

    CabalTrainee Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2018
    Messages:
    388
    Likes Received:
    571
    IA high order count LI lists are very strong. In the LI play format.
     
    meikyoushisui and theradrussian like this.
  6. theradrussian

    theradrussian Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2018
    Messages:
    438
    Likes Received:
    658
    Military orders not being a bad joke would be nice
     
    Random, melkiach, Sungwon and 3 others like this.
  7. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    6,293
    Likes Received:
    7,850
    @psychoticstorm I think you might've managed to kill the CC debate since it's a very specific debate and either this thread or that debate risks drowning in the other when rolled together.

    On the topic of CC, I'm increasingly suspecting that there is no real fixed going rate for low CC values, but instead that the increase in points cost are a direct result of cross-faction comparisons. I.e. Zhanshi were literally created using Alguacile as template.
    It's funny, because it's possible to make a list in IA that nearly completely shuts a high-order IA list down in LI, simply because a high-order IA list is fairly vulnerable to hacking and can't handle template weapons well.
     
    ChoTimberwolf likes this.
  8. Freki

    Freki Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2019
    Messages:
    54
    Likes Received:
    37
    My take with N4 is not so much about balance, rules and stuff.

    It is more about CB's way of delivering the game.
    CB was at the forefront in allowing players to play the game without having to buy the rule. From a business perspective, CB (seems to) defines itself as a miniature seller. Unlike your big main competitor that likes to sell paper and any hobby related item.
    This allowed it to be more digital. The army builder, the wiki, ITS are amazing tools that contributes to the soft power of the brand / game.

    I think it is now time to go further down this path, analyse and use the analysis on a regular basis to change your game. A good data scientist can easily understand which profiles are underused and regular balance can be brought to the game. From my anecdotal point of view, out of the 9 profiles available to the Alguaciles in Nomad, I only use 3: the basic one, the hacker and the Lt. The other ones feel too little optimised.
    I would love CB to see that and do something about it regularly. A bit like a video game company, only here the reviews happen every 6 months.

    From a business point of view, more of those 90€ starter boxes.

    To finish a cleaving bold idea: permanent collections and temporary ones. Put some releases on a timer. Release a sectorial, give yourself one year to get all the minis out, and discontinue it after an extra year. Promise a rerelease in the next 2 years. Create some trends, make people understand the rhythm associated to them. At the moment we have 25 sectorials available in the army planer, and 4 have been discontinued.
    One permanent sectorial per faction, means 9 in the permanent collections. The 16 others put on rotation. Half on hiatus means 8 are to be released every 2 years. So 4 a year or one every 3 months. Done right, it could make the game feel more healthy from the gamer point of view, improve the production, find better space in shelves in our stores.
     
    Badlazzor, Wolf, melkiach and 2 others like this.
  9. CabalTrainee

    CabalTrainee Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2018
    Messages:
    388
    Likes Received:
    571
    What i see most people ask for are balance issues. I don't think that is actual a feasible request with all the opinions flying around and the amount of sectorials and profiles the game accommodates right now. Unless we see a big tabula rasa which i doubt are many in favor of (I'm probably the minority here) it is nearly impossible to do every single unit profile justice.

    What i wish for is a cleaned up rulebook (or pdf). With a clear layout. Right now we have rules everywhere. Sometimes in the skillbox, sometimes under a skillbox, sometimes in a blue "reminder" box sometimes in a red "attention" box. Sometimes a proper interaction is only explained in examples. We got traits that got rulestext that it does not use (Like the entire rules entry for burnt state which you theoretically get from fire-sensitive on symbiont armor). The No-LoF trait does not even have a rules entry at all. Most of the time the rule you are looking for actually exist but it can be real work to actually find it.

    The same i would wish for the FAQ in N4. A proper distinction between Errata and FAQ helps alot. It makes understanding way easier. Also sometimes a single sentence about the intent of a rules change can instantly channel feedback on a more constructive track because people understand what issues are supposed to be fixed with this. That way people can understand why it was implemented and directly comment why this does or doesn't fix the issue.

    While Infinity is a very complex system the rulebook right now makes it more difficult to understand the game than it needs to be.
     
  10. Alfy

    Alfy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2019
    Messages:
    85
    Likes Received:
    160
    I wish for a small, quality of life thing: let's have a hyperlinked PDF this time around. At the very least the ToC and the index.
     
    Remnar, Deltervees, Section9 and 7 others like this.
  11. ijw

    ijw Wargaming Trader, Freelance Editor (UK)
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2017
    Messages:
    5,239
    Likes Received:
    10,636
    Your numbers are off somewhere. The Fusilier is on 21% to survive the BSG and the Combi Rifle only drops that to 20%. And yes, that's better than CC but, again, the Speculo's strength is in being almost as effective no matter how tough the target is.
     
  12. Nuada Airgetlam

    Nuada Airgetlam Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2018
    Messages:
    467
    Likes Received:
    681
    You're spot on in the rest of your post, but that is the single worst idea in the threads. A nightmare for a painter and collector. Exclusion of people coming into the game / faction late in the cycle.
    And a great chance for CB to fail a promise with huge consequence for a collection.

    Nope, nope, nope. The only one worse idea would be random "boosters" with blind purchases. Limited time offers are a horrible idea.
     
    Random, Cabaray, Deltervees and 2 others like this.
  13. spears

    spears Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2017
    Messages:
    276
    Likes Received:
    355
    Whilst I don't agree with everything that's been said in here I don't think its particularly constructive to spend multiple posts telling the community how wrong they are.
    Infinity is an incredibly robust rule set that handles imbalances really well, that doesn't mean the community feedback on some of these issues is wrong. In some cases where the focus is on a particular unit within a faction such as Sheskin or Mutts the strength of the faction doesn't make that unit ok.
     
    Wolf, Berjiz and theradrussian like this.
  14. ijw

    ijw Wargaming Trader, Freelance Editor (UK)
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2017
    Messages:
    5,239
    Likes Received:
    10,636
    P.S. @psychoticstorm would it be possible to re-open @Sabin76's CC thread? It was discussing one specific subject so doesn't fall under 'generic N4 discussions'. It's also going to get completely lost here. :-(
     
    Mahtamori, ChoTimberwolf and spears like this.
  15. psychoticstorm

    psychoticstorm Aleph's rogue child
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2017
    Messages:
    3,063
    Likes Received:
    5,854
    Ok I will do so.
     
    Section9, Berjiz and Mahtamori like this.
  16. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2017
    Messages:
    2,810
    Likes Received:
    5,901
    Aside from my original wishlist:

    • Rebalancing all armies: Duh. Each faction and sectorial should be brought to the same level regarding options, fireteams, new weapons and skills, etc. Obviously each should keep their flavour and identity - we don't want them to be carbon copies of each other - but be equally fun to play and balanced against others. When point formula changes all units should be equally affected.
    • Reworking problematic units: Each faction has its own problem children. Those should be brought up to par, or - in few cases - downgraded a bit. Teutons, Shang Ji, Ghazi, Posthumans, Singh...
    • Recalculating global costs: CC, ARM, SMGs, KHDs, Jammers, Mimetism - these are the most obvious offenders, but there are other things that are obviously under- or overpriced.
    • Changing crits mechanics: The most obvious solution would be to make them auto-win, but not auto-wound. This way that high ARM values on HIs and TAGs would be worth its cost.
    • No nested skills: It's a no-brainer, it should be obvious from the amount of people mentioning this. This will both make the game easier to learn and remember, and will give CB greater degree of fine control when balancing units. iFor example it'll be possible to create a unit with Martial Arts but without Stealth, and so on.
    • Streamlining CC: I'm actually fine with different skills having different tables, but I'd like each choice to be relevant under certain circumstances. Right now if trooper can use MA3 the lower levels are gathering dust. Each should be equally useful, but in different combat situations. It's possible to add more unique effects at each tier.
    • Reworking hacking: In similar way to CC, some hacking options are obviously better than others. Each of them should be equally useful, just against different targets. Same goes for hacking devices - each should have it's own signature traits, just like KHD, WHD, or EVO. Also, defensive hacking should be a thing. Also, more Supportware, including programs to buff HIs and TAGs
    • Fixing Fatality L2: Increasing number of crits isn't the way to go. Just make it increase weapon damage more, and split it between TAG types. Small, S6 TAGs (and maybe S5 HIs) - Fatality L1. S7 MBTAGs - Fatality L2.
    • Give HIs proper weapons: Less of this "elite troops in power armour armed with a standard infantry rifle" stuff. Most of the time such unit will never be taken.
    • Cleaning up fireteams: Mixed fireteams are great, but also a mess. In some sectorials number and complication level of various options is ridiculous.
    • Stop dealing out NWI+Immunity with a shovel: It makes actual HIs less appealing. Or at least give those HIs some advantages the other units don't have.
    • Fixing Total Immunity: Honestly, I think the current iteration is a bit much.

    I'd also like to see terrain rules made simpler and easier to use - and hence to include in the game.

    TAGs need some love, but without making them into a no-brainer choice (remember the moment when Lieutenant TAGs were specialists?) One of the interesting suggestions I've seen elsewhere is give them Tactical Awareness. In general, TA is something that would fit more elite yet underwhelming units. Sogarats and Aquila are two that immediately come to mind.

    MSV3 simply needs a point drop.
     
  17. Kiwi Steve

    Kiwi Steve Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2018
    Messages:
    75
    Likes Received:
    114
    I would like to see offensive hacking simplified. Having a massive list of offensive hacks to look through before I chose Redrum seems to add unnecessary complexity. Hacking (particularly AHD/KHD/HD+) always feels like I've got a guy with 4 different guns and I'm choosing so I fire my HMG, MSR, Spitfire or Red Fury this turn.

    Giving the HD 1 attack type with levels that have standard attacking upgrades might make it easier.

    E.g. I can Issolate, Immobilise or Damage (3 ammo types). Level 1 is B2 Dam 13, level 2 adds +3 attack modifier, l3 adds +1B (regardless of which basic attack type was originally chosen)

    Doesn't have to be these mods but just something intuitive so new players aren't overwhelmed the first half dozen times they hack by the massive list of similar looking programs.

    I love hacking and its interactions, but the large variety always feels like a mini game within a game which doesn't come up enough to develop a real solid understanding of how to do it.
     
    Wolf likes this.
  18. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    3,507
    Likes Received:
    4,085

    I expect:
    • The low tech solutions to be actually a liability than a proof against HiTech toys
    • Rework of MO
    • Solving CB "I cheat pts formula" (SMGs, Frenzy in Links etc.)
    • ARO timing issues
    • Easy way to have Comic Sans in forums (srsly copy pasting it every time gets boring)
     
  19. Cartographer

    Cartographer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    675
    Likes Received:
    1,114
    You're just using the BB code editor right?
    I wonder what else works?
    Legible or nonsense?
     
    Xeurian, theradrussian and Abrilete like this.
  20. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    3,507
    Likes Received:
    4,085
    Yes. I never said I'm inventor ;P (just a guy who finally was annoyed enough to google it)