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The definite N4 Comments, Suggestions, Ideas, wishlist's and Bugs that need fixing thread

Discussion in 'Access Guide to the Human Sphere' started by psychoticstorm, Aug 6, 2019.

  1. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    I think if we remove the complete denial of visibility from smoke, then Eclipse and Albedo should follow suit. Personally, I would be willing to test this as I consider Infinity to be fully playable without visibility denial and a -9 MOD (Terrible Visibility Zone?) is probably strong enough to mimic the full denial in a range of situations (mainly TR REMs)

    Edit: I do think that Sixth Sense L2 should probably not remove MODs from smoke with this change, as it would make 4+ links very very strong, though it'll need further testing.
     
  2. ChoTimberwolf

    ChoTimberwolf Artichoken Friend

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    The sight blocking is helpful for lists/armys that don't have a lot of longe range and need to get closer so would change a lot of list building if it gets taken completly away. But if eclipse always give a -9 mod you have a decent change to survive most aro shots would be intresting to try
     
  3. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    What you're describing is essentially JSA, but they reportedly have fairly difficult access to smoke.

    Most other factions have fairly good access to long range weapons.
     
  4. ChoTimberwolf

    ChoTimberwolf Artichoken Friend

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    Thats true but doesn't mean that they are always taken. Thanks to makauls there are many tohaa lists using eclipse to get close for CC, HFT etc
    Without it I fear the game would become more linear, going even more in the direction of long range shoot outs and I think that would be sad and boring
     
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  5. theradrussian

    theradrussian Well-Known Member

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    Reposting an idea I just had here for further input

    Hot take: MO getting bum-rushed had me think it'd be nice to see some knights or other units in the sectorial get an ability to start in Suppressive fire at the beginning of the game, or maybe the ability to do so for free at the end of an order (while still generating an ARO).

    Since tactical sense is a sin for MO because reasons I am not Spanish enough to understand, maybe that'd help retain a unique identity.


    Something to consider as a way to make the early game more interesting? Kinda like how an EVO bot lets you start with supportware up?
     
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  6. spears

    spears Well-Known Member

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    I've seen similar suggestions about being able to spend a command token to co-ordinate suppresive fire turn 0. I think it could be interesting and give some extra choice as to how you spend your strategic command token.
     
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  7. daszul

    daszul Well-Known Member

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    Don't know about MO, but that is like my idea to buff the Daiyokai by dropping Fat1, and adding Total Reaction.
    Why are there only TR REMs? Neurokinetics is very role-defining as ARO piece, while TR adds utility!
     
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  8. theradrussian

    theradrussian Well-Known Member

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    Or that. I guess I defaulted to supp. fire as it maxes out at 24" so you can't for example have a TR remote but better(TM) in the form of an HI in cover on a roof with an HMG and burst 4
     
  9. daszul

    daszul Well-Known Member

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    Well, you need not (and probaply should not) give the TR skill to an HI HMG. (JSA's wet dreams...)
    Maybe something like a new Hospitaler profile with MultRifle and TR.
     
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  10. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Here's a radical idea. Possibly a bit complicated. It addresses the abuse of excessively good sniper nests.

    When deploying, units get two orders and enter from the Deployment Zone board edge, but not outside DZ. Forward Deployment allows to move out of DZ, level 2 gives the unit 3 orders. Infiltration allows units to enter from own side's board edge, but not cross to opponent side. Superior allows to enter on opponent's side, inferior forces to enter on opponent's side. Mech Deploy enters from a vehicle template on street level.
    Only movement short/long skills may be performed during deployment, Hidden Deployment allows the two moves to be done hidden. Maybe change Suppression Fire to be an Entire Order Movement Skill as an interesting trade off between moving forwards and deploying with suppression.

    Naturally this needs to be combined with a few changes to terrain rules to make traversing terrain easier. Mainly thinking about doors here.
     
  11. theradrussian

    theradrussian Well-Known Member

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    It'd exponentially add to game length is my concern, but I get where you're coming from.
     
  12. Pakulkan

    Pakulkan Well-Known Member

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    Streamline Skills. Please. That's all we need.
    • Avoid redundancies like Martial Arts/Guard/Natural Born Warrior/Protheion. Same with Camos/visual MODs.
    • Simplify excessive complicated skills like Airborne Deployment (seriously? 6 levels?).
    • Reduce hacking programs (that also tend to be very similar in some cases) or rework them as a sandbox mechanics (e.g. Your hacking device level gives you X points of hacking, distribute them between Burst, Damage, Malus and Bonus).
    • I would also argue about reducing number of ammunition types, and probably weapons.
    Number of Skills that provide the same or very similar bonuses increase a lot the number of interactions and the lenght of the manual. Unnecessarily.

    Beside this, I would rework Close Combat (maybe adding Burst for CC values over 20, e.g. 22 is Burst 3) and Hacking providing some tools to make it interesting against non-tech armies like Haqqs and Ariadna, or increase number of buffs available with hacking.

    That's pretty much my opinion.

    Infinity could work pretty well if you make things simplier but modular:

    No need for dozens of weapons. Just mixing 4 types of rifle, for example (Submachine gun, Rifle, Spitfire, HMG) and some modular skills/attributes:

    Overloaded: +1 Burst
    Precission: +3 Bonus each range (so -6 would be -3, for example)
    DumDum: +1 Damage
    etc.

    Would effectively modify all of them in a more comprehensive way.

    Same with Skills.

    Mimetism: -3 MOD each level
    Camouflage: Level 1 Marker state, Level 2 Recamo option, Level 3 Impersonation

    Woudln't that work for a similar level of choice options for the player but a strealined, cleaner set of rules?
     
  13. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Hardly exponentially since it uses only one third of the order declaration sequence, but yes it does risk up to trippling deployment time so that each unit takes as much time as a Combat Jump unit to deploy.

    I kind of get where you're coming from, but I think you are overestimating how many similar weapons Infinity has.

    There are some that are different in all the wrong ways (it has +0 at 32" to 72" instead of -3 whooptidoo!) but fundamentally Infinity doesn't have enough weapons that you'll save all that much with a modular approach.
    Instead I think it is an interesting idea from the perspective of just how many new weapons you can make without massively cluttering the system.
     
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  14. Pakulkan

    Pakulkan Well-Known Member

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    Well... You have (looking at Nomads, for example):

    • Light shotgun + Boarding Shotgun + Heavy Shotgun changing just de Damage (13 to 14 to 15).
    • Rifle, Combi Rifle, Precission Rifle, MULTI Rifle all of them barely the same ranges
    • Pistol, Heavy Pistol, Assault Pistol, Breaker Pistol changing the damage and burst, basically.
    • Spitfire, Red Fury, Mk12.
    • HMG, Feuerbach, Magnetic cannon.

    All of them, beside multiple Ammunition that adds another layer of complexity.

    My point is to provide just Pistol, Rifle, etc. and then modify them using Tags that could represent different ammunitions and/or variations of the weapon. So instead of looking at profile AND ammunition, you're familiar with 5-6 profiles and just have a look on tags. Modular approach effectively sums up ammunition and weapon loads in just one cage.

    Same for skills.

    One important part of Infinity coenvolution is not anly a profussion of options, but a plethora of names. If am still (3 years playing) getting confused with Pulzar+Jammer+Zapper whatever...
     
  15. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    The MULTI ammos, though, are a hallmark of the Infinity universe' nod towards technological achievement in firearms where you are able to select, on the fly, bullet type without reloading the gun.

    Some of those have significantly more alterations than a single point. Mk12 is a low burst, high damage Spitfire. HRMC is a high burst, Light Multi HMG. While both of those can be adequately described with a prefix-suffix system, it also risks removing some of the flair where there is a very distinct difference between the HRMC and the HMG - plus there is a very distinctly different look on models.
     
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  16. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Given the current surge in questions on Mines and their size:

    I hope in N4 they simply do away with differing mine and camo sizes and make the camouflage marker the same as what it hides - S0

    I'm not fully convinced camo roulette from mines is worth the issues nor how it skews Minelayer's actual worth.
    However, if they want to keep it, they might simply change the Prone Marker to a more generic S0 Marker that you can place next to anything that is currently S0 (prone or otherwise)
     
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  17. Armihaul

    Armihaul Well-Known Member

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    mines coul go camo prone directly. The possibility is there and solves a lot of situations, and still, people can deploy their camo markers in prone, so the enemy can not be sure if its a mine or not.
     
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  18. Mroowkojad

    Mroowkojad Member

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    I believe that i'm not the only one who would like to see CB making TAGs great again.
    This made me draw a rather heretic idea to give all TAGs Total Immunity (with monofilament exception) skill.
    While it would definitely shake current game balance, it would finally make TAGs a worthy opponent to order spam armies. While not providing 6-8 orders that equally priced cheap infantry would, TAG would now be an order sink for the enemy, should he decide to destroy it.
     
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  19. daszul

    daszul Well-Known Member

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    But then the Anti-TAG ammos like EXP and AP would be worthless against the targets they were designed against.
    And TAGs would still be in a bad spot if they don't win FtF rolls, but only survive their defeats.
    So it would be better to give them like +1 burst (even in reactive, or just FullAuto1) or even Full Auto 2.
     
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  20. Del S

    Del S Nomadball

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    TAGs should get Fatality and Full Auto L1 hard coded into being a TAG. Maybe also some other minor buffs.

    Maybe the TAG system could be reworked to be similar to spec ops - a TAG can buy a few small upgrades, like swap weapons out, add sensors, etc....