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The definite N4 Comments, Suggestions, Ideas, wishlist's and Bugs that need fixing thread

Discussion in 'Access Guide to the Human Sphere' started by psychoticstorm, Aug 6, 2019.

  1. DukeofEarl

    DukeofEarl Well-Known Member

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    Yeah there seems to be a big disconnect over the ITS mission End Game conditions vs Retreat (N3 Rule). That entire discussion is not an N4 topic, but an ITS Season 11+ one
     
    Yog.0 likes this.
  2. meikyoushisui

    meikyoushisui Competitor for Most Ignored User

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    The retreat mechanic in the rulebook is better but I still think it is too harsh.
     
  3. Cabaray

    Cabaray Well-Known Member
    Warcor

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    I am for it. A good field study for this is units getting Immobilized/Isolated and engineers being send in to fix it. If multiple tries are needed it becomes an order sink which can be good for your opponent as well, if you want your HI back so bad.
     
  4. Cabaray

    Cabaray Well-Known Member
    Warcor

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    I can't make my mind up about the embedded rules. Cause some work and some are bloat in my opinion.

    For instance: Auto medikit and Regeneration. They do the same thing, but Regeneration has Immunity to shock. Best to do away with regeneration and replace with auto medikit and ad shock immunity.

    But I am totally fine with the Morat rule having multiple rules embedded. Cause it is a universal rule for every Morat. So you know when facing morats they are always veteran level 1 and religious.

    But Veteran L2 irks me. Cause it is just two rules added on as one rule sand Veteran L2 itself is just a middle man towards these rules.

    But with a FO remote like the Pathfinder Dronbot embedded rules make sure you don't fill one spreadsheet with one unit because of all the skills it has (and that these rules are "universal" for every FO remote). Although sometimes you forget you can do things like Sat-Lock, which would have been great.

    So I think I might be fine that at the first level off a rule you can embed some rules. Like all Martial Artists have stealth. But once it goes to: "And level 2 has all these rules added and Level 3 also has loads embedded" Then I think it becomes a hassle.

    But I know for sure that it is a spot CB can clear up a lot of things.
     
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  5. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    I agree on much of what you said.

    Simplify
    Fatality L1 +1 Dmg, Fatality L2 +2 Dmg. Done. why make the other level so much more complicated?
     
    Yog.0, Berjiz, Abrilete and 1 other person like this.
  6. Del S

    Del S Nomadball

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    What currently even has L2? Khawarijs and Tarik Mankini? I don't think they'll mind having dam16 spitfires all of a sudden...
    Seems far more useful and consistent than basically a 1 in 7 shot at a crit, assuming enemy in at least cover and optimal rangeband and that you hit in the first place.
     
  7. RobertShepherd

    RobertShepherd Brisk antipodean

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    Them, and Sheshkiin.
     
  8. Mob of Blondes

    Mob of Blondes Well-Known Member

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    I thought a different one, Retreat becomes Reinforcements. All players must provide the basic lists for the tournament, plus the "fodder list": same points, but only allows AVA total units. Once the % triggers, all these new soldiers enter via edges of own deployment zone. The earlier things get bad and stealth becomes useless, the faster rank and file is pushed towards the battle field. A flood of 20-30 soldiers plus the <25% left (so up to 125% in the field, maybe not with great positioning) against <=100% is a good reason to not go massacre style.

    CB will sell plenty of basic troops, and no excuse to make more poses. *wink*
     
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  9. Alphz

    Alphz Kuang Shi Vet. Retired.

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    This could be a genuinely hilarious way to use all those SWC line troopers too!

    Otherthan it being cumbersome I actually like it and may include it in some custom scenarios!
     
    Abrilete likes this.
  10. Andre82

    Andre82 Well-Known Member

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    I would absolutely do that, and then I would criticize CB for making a broken game.

    My problem with retreat is anytime it shows up someone is probably getting the rules wrong anyway. It's not adding anything but complexity and bad play experiences so why bother with it.
     
    Hecaton likes this.
  11. Abrilete

    Abrilete Well-Known Member

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    Just dropping by to say that I also think that having "Retreat" is way better than not having it.
    I also think it shoud be improved to prevent some exploits.
     
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  12. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    My point is to simplify things. They are both called Fatality Level 1 and 2, but both have totally different rules.
     
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  13. QueensGambit

    QueensGambit Active Member

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    toadchild, Berjiz, Tourniquet and 6 others like this.
  14. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    I have a LOT of comments to make on the EoR subject, so I will take them over there.


    I'm really pretty torn about the retreat threshold now. In all honesty, a military unit is combat-ineffective and stuck where it is once it takes 33% casualties. One trooper giving care to each wounded trooper, one trooper providing security. If you're lucky, two troopers can move a wounded to a safer position. More likely, it will be 4 troopers to carry each wounded.
     
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  15. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Perhaps. That could definitely change based on new military doctrines (like those UGVs that can carry wounded), as well as shit like Ikari and probably the Combined Army not giving too much of a toss about casualties.
     
  16. Nenyx

    Nenyx Well-Known Member

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    On the other hand, it is supposed to be more like a special op and less an army and a whole game is only a few minutes, so i can imagine loss rate doesn't count as much. Plus the field team may count on some form of support like emergency heal or rescue team to come after the fight to recover what is recoverable.
     
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  17. Weathercock

    Weathercock Well-Known Member

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    Not to mention that in the case of greviously wounded squad mates, you could cut out their cubes and take them with you.
     
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  18. SpectralOwl

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    My usual headcanon is a less-silly version of the """Fulton Devices""" from Metal Gear Solid 5. When the team has to leave the area, all of the unconscious or dead troops hope they're outside and get pulled out by remote-triggered, balloon-carried cable caught by that dropship that brings the AD guys in. Probably explains why you'd retreat before losing the whole squad too, no matter how important the mission; you'd need a few left to make sure the casualties (and their mission-critical, OP-scoring data) got out intact.
     
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  19. daszul

    daszul Well-Known Member

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    Still thinking about how to fix/improve the interaction between Sixth Sense, MSV and Smoke:

    Right now, I think that SixthSense negating the -6 from shooting back through smoke is too strong.
    And MSV1 having ZeroVis through Smoke while MSV2 has no VisMods at all is odd as well.

    Sixth Sense should reduce the MOD from attacks through VisibilityZones by 3.
    MSV1 should reduce VisabilityMods by 3
    MSV2 should reduce VisMods by 6
    MSV3 should reduce VisMods by 9
    Smoke is VisMod -9 (so you can always have LoF if it is not Eclipse)

    for AROs:
    Smoke: -9
    Smoke + SS: -6
    Smoke + MSV1: -6
    Smoke + SS + MSV1: -3
    Smoke + MSV2: -3
    Smoke + SS + MSV2: -0
    Smoke + MSV3: -0

    What do you think?
     
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  20. Armihaul

    Armihaul Well-Known Member

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    there are factions with no MSV2 and rely solely on SS2 to deffend against smoke. I don't know if SS2 is too strong (althought I don't think so), but it is indeed needed. In fact, is the smoke who is strong, and with that, I think it would be even stronger, unless you have access to one of the few linked MSV2, or MS3. Remember also that, even if the link has SS2, only the one attacked can aro through smoke, that's an extra deffense that SS2 doesn't bypass.

    If MSV2/3 were more common, that could be a solution, but now, is giving extra power to those with it, and at the moment, those are a bit ahead of the factions without it, so maybe that would make things worse.