It was the counter to ODD, or Mimetic -6 these days. The idea was low tech factions didn't get good visor access but their counter was the good old USARF set the Avatar on fire approach, then pound the flaming silhouette with AP weapons.
Agreed, of all the changes between the additions this one I hold to be one of the, because currently if a profile doesnt have an in built template it has access to a shotgun. meaning that templates can be fairly inescapable. I have also found that a lot of profiles and play styles are just dead in the water because of it, whilst pushing the game towards a more non interactive state.
Yeah man I've been around since those days. I played a lot of games of Tohaa vs Steel Phalanx and a lot of games with the Avatar vs whoever and a LOT of games against Ariadna (so fucking many). Burnt just never did anything. Once I was in position to hit with fire, or be hit with fire, usually the target was dead or in position to be killed easily without that rule.
To me, the template changes have been a universal good thing. It has made rifle range bands and armor feel stronger as anything under 8 inches seems very deadly. It also has worked to nerf SMGs as their preferred range band has a good chance of being a trade. But I play an asymmetrical trade faction full of shotguns (Haqqislam), so your experiences probably vary.
I think I'd be OK with the shotgun change if it didn't include light shotguns. It's made what historically was an inferior weapons system (rifle + lsg) just straight up superior to combi rifles. I'd go so far to say combi rifle is probably the least desirable loudout on a profile now. Despite still being more expensive. It's similar but less pronounced than how SMGs made multi rifle seem like very poor value. So it's no surprise that combi and multirifles are not considered upgrades by players, but CB still put them on profiles like some kind of upgrade
With the points drop on MULTI Rifles in N4 and the corresponding price hike to SMGs, I'd never consider an SMG a particularly superior weapon this edition. The MULTI Rifle though is a pretty attractive upgrade at fairly low cost on a lot of profiles - e.g. Miranda Ashcroft is something I've been experimenting with recently in Dashat and that's my current preferred profile for her.
I feel Multi Rifles are good bang for your bucks in this edition in terms of being an upgrade on Combis, but Combis themselves have been overpriced for two editions now. Slightly. I'm also of the opinion that SMGs with their sliiiightly higher price and the meta shift in N4 are not as good as they used to be - not sure where they'd be if you rolled back the amount of DTWs, which I honestly think they should do, but atm I think the price is about right on SMG.
A group of people have been playing (in a tournie with deliberately experimental rules) with Shotguns that you need to roll at +6 BS to hit with Template Mode. Which I think is an elegant solution: we already have 'place teardrop template but roll to hit' with Intuitive attack, so it's intuitive as an interaction and goes a long way to cutting down on the amount of DTWs in the game. (Even CB doesn't do this, can we have LFTs instead of LSGs on Tomcats and Sombras. Nomads getting Combi/Multi+LSG back when CJC is supposed to be running +LFTs just messes with their character).
I think I would be pretty ok with lsgs only having hit mode and bsgs rolling +6 FTF to place the template.
SMGs are still too deadly for what should be a sub-par weapon. They're also driving the "everything needs shock immunity" problem.
With the SMG price bump I've moved from it being way too good towards thinking that the combi is too crap for its cost. Seriously, how many combi equipped profiles do you take where you don't or wouldn't take something with a different loadout? SMG could perhaps still have its range toned down or lose one ammo type though, but its not as egregious as before.
I haven't noticed many SMG profiles increase in cost. Are we sure SMG's are costed anymore than before, or did some profiles just increase in price due to other factors? Actually looking through there does seem to be some inconsistency - Ie. Brawler hacker pays 2 points over the basic brawler profile despite having an SMG - suggesting ONLY a 3pt discount. While Kappa still seems to be banking the full 5 pt discount. varangians also seem to be getting 4-5 points off. So more like brawlers (and some other profiles) getting ducked than conscious increase in pts.
I find them excellent value on AD profiles; between the Suppressive Fire access, outranging templates and shotguns yet still being able to exploit BS bonuses in close, and being able to catch enemies out of cover and not thus needing special ammo as much, Combi Rifles are usually my preferred weapon on such troopers.
Agree. It's a large part of why I tend to prefer Tomcats over Hellcats: Combi, LFT vs BSG/Combi. B3 from outside of 8" into a rear arc is just great.
I just had the thought. Is it about time CB just gave most units a basic profile that could choose from a SMG, Shotgun, rifle and advanced rifle (multi, marksman, breaker, AP) for the appropriate points cost?
I used to agree, but then over time I came to the conclusion that burst three just isn't all that reliable. Lots of times where I catch a cheerleader in the open, but then catch a bullet in return. Or try to shoot a flash bot and fail to beat the mimetism... but in fairness thats pretty much everything short of apex gunfighters lol. Its great for nailing a dude in the back but I've had a fair few turns of the dice with it in anything remoting approaching a fair fight. I'd support giving the majority of units in the game access to the different weapons. But would be nice if there was a way within the profile system to allow say, a basic "paramedic dude" to easily choose between several basic options without needing to print a page of profile choices.
My usual tricks for handling those issues are 1.) use Tiger Soldiers (which are excellent) and 2.) Redundancy. 2-3 Combat Jump guys really alleviate the danger of a bad roll that could sink just one, plus it lets you occasionally risk a Combat Jump where necessary without losing your forward presence. It's a costly strategy in terms of points, but I find that having one-to-three mid-tier pieces exactly where you need them for minimal order cost pays itself off almost every time- though I've had trouble using the tactic against HI links in the past, they're practically extinct now due to relentless minmaxing of links so there's usually something to pick off.
That's pretty much what I'd be hoping for. Most units that normally just came with a combi or shotgun got compressed into a single profile which paid points for the primary. Then unit profile would for example consist of basic, Lt, specialist, SWC 1, SWV 2
Another nice benefit of choosing the profile then choosing its primary weapon from a limited drop down list might be solving the 298-299pt list with nothing to spend the last points on annoyance. Especially since in N4 the 300pt list puzzle is harder to solve due to the 15 trooper cap.
