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The definite N4 Comments, Suggestions, Ideas, wishlist's and Bugs that need fixing thread

Discussion in 'Access Guide to the Human Sphere' started by psychoticstorm, Aug 6, 2019.

  1. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    I mean, trimming the fat is great. Unnecessary complexity is always, by definition, bad. But the problem is that it adjusted the power levels of factions' hacking capabilities relative to each other, and added and removed certain capabilities (No Exile, Spotlight in ARO, etc).
     
  2. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Has it occurred to you that this might have been necessary or beneficial to the game?
     
  3. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    I considered it, but I don't think there's the evidence there to support it.
     
  4. toadchild

    toadchild Premeasure

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    The only significantly meaningful difference I see between Exile and Oblivion is that Exile could target any model in a fireteam, whereas Oblivion must target "hackable" models. It's not hard to find people who agree that the fact that only HI, REMs, and TAGs are subject to (most) hacking attacks is a balance problem for hackers; perhaps that would be a more productive direction to go rather than focusing on a single program.
     
  5. SpectralOwl

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    As it is, Hacking Devices in N4 bring enough versatility that they are useful even against Ariadnan-style unhackable lists. Spotlight pays for itself easily when there are no KHDs about to worry the Hacker, KHDs have the useful Cybermask to evade Mines, and EVO devices do a bunch of things. It's worth mentioning that I think N4 Hacking works quite well when both sides are in the same weight class, or have sufficient assets to deplete the Hacking infrastructure in other ways, but falls apart and becomes boring when one side has all the power and their opponent can't address the problem with their more usual tools. Problem areas at the moment are Links (Sixth Sense and the Tinbot mechanic being tied to them give Sectorials a huge edge), Pitchers (which basically ignore positioning as a defense), seriously unequal distribution of fairly basic Upgrades (imagine if Mimetism was a PanO exclusive...) and BTS9 Hackers with Firewall (nearly immune to the standard anti-hacker KHD, which is all some of the straightforward factions have for dealing with them). Providing numbers solutions or at least enjoyable counterplay to these aspects would make the game a fair bit more fun against the Hacking-blessed factions, in my opinion.
     
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  6. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Yes, so it worked quite well on the "Kamau MSR and 4 Fusilier" type fireteam.
     
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  7. Dragonstriker

    Dragonstriker That wizard came from the moon.

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    But in the case of Nomads, it’s CB who gave in to the urge.
     
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  8. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    @HellLois could we get a motorcycle profile for bounty hunters so we can use that mini again? It's very nice.
     
  9. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    While we're at it, why doesn't Sheskiin have Stealth? Cadmus do, and she's like a leveled up Cadmus.
     
  10. Skjarr

    Skjarr EI Mouthpiece

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    For reasons of balance I imagine.
    I've never gotten around to actually trying her out in either N3 or N4 but on the face of it I can see why they may wish to avoid giving her stealth.
     
  11. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Eh, Nourkias has it.
     
  12. Angry Clown

    Angry Clown Well-Known Member

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    There s an issue about rem costs in N4. Excatly same units are different in cost value.
    Pano, Haqq and Yujing are the cheapest here. Lets say a clipper is 16 pts.

    Nomads and 012 are mediocre. Vertigo zond is 17 pts.

    Aleph and combined is the most expensive. Samekh is for instance 18 pts.

    Same issue is on sensor bots as well.

    Why is the reason for this? Nomad has normally the Best repeater range and hackers. Is the reason wip values of the units? posthuman has wip15 and Anathemnatics have wip16 for instance. However Situation is weirder in sectorials.

    Steel phalanx doesnt have high wip hackers and we cant say they are one of the Best with the units they have (they even dont have a fo or hacker infiltrator and no pitchers in link) but they use the most expensive samekh and daleth.

    Contrary, bahram uses cheapest rems although they have ragik wip 15 plus nice barid hackers with pitchers inside 5man link.

    I cant calculate at all the state in tohaa, spiral or lets say Tak in ariadna since units are a bit different. But if these armies want to play same spotlight / guided game their position is harder. Since they cant spotlight at all in reactive turn. However their guided arms seem on expensive side.
     
    #2632 Angry Clown, Feb 21, 2021
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2021
  13. fari

    fari CRISTASOL, EL LIQUIDO DE LOS DIOSES

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    Nomads and Aleph have Climbing Plus. If other reasons involved, IDK
     
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  14. Angry Clown

    Angry Clown Well-Known Member

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    Steel phalanx is the only sectorial without 5man link option nowadays.
    My advice is to give a thorakitai and a myrmidon 4man core ability like in spiral with a swc cost.

    And Giving the SCYCLA forward deployment with cybermines minelayer.
     
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  15. Angry Clown

    Angry Clown Well-Known Member

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    About guided issue
    I can make these comments as possible solution.
    Scout Fo without ojotnik but with shotgun instead with better wip. Because in lets say Tak, anybody Will choose to use ojotnik to attack otherwise. Same with Vasily too. This thing can be made in other sectorials too.
    Better kuryers with bs12.
    If not, a device to be used on no lof opponenents.

    İn tohaa, better to eliminate all hacker options. Especially on spiral those taagma hackers are need less and boring.
    And to bring a pheroware tactic to be used as spotlight instead. Better eliminating pherobooster too.

    İf rems have to vary in price in armies better to vary in sectorials too.
     
    #2635 Angry Clown, Feb 21, 2021
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2021
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  16. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    Not on a Vertigo they don't.
     
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  17. Savnock

    Savnock Nerfherder

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    These are ridiculous. SP gets 4-man links of unlimited number, but limited type. Tohaa get unlimited links with free association. Tohaa's sectorial version got a Core-like link as one of their few uber powers, but the rest of the sectorial is really balanced (except the Kriigel but hey every faction needs a little uber).

    This does not mean we need to extend Tri-Core to Steel Phalanx, where it would be INSANE. Core-linked 2W models with Mimetism -6 and Spitfires or worse are a thing that can break the game unless made very, very expensive.

    And Scylla's great. You're asking for ponies.
     
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  18. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Scylla and the KoJ are probably the 2 best non-Nomad hackers.
     
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  19. Angry Clown

    Angry Clown Well-Known Member

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    I dont agree with you.
    Corregidor, Bakunin, tunguska, neoterran have 5 Man links with an Odd shooter.

    Vostok has Odd, has 2 wounds, has repeater, has an engineer inside its' link, has even a tinbot 6. Lets check more.

    Steel phalanx has to march forward to push buttons. But Lets say Bakunin have 3 zeroes. Have prowlers. But They stili Have chimera which is more deadly than anything in the game with eclipse.

    Phalanx doesnt have this. They need to march. When the enom. 4man link rule had Come, there was No 5 Man link with a trooper msv 2 sniper with mimetism with neurocinetics friends nearby. There was No Vostok in 5man link. There was No ruishi with asisted fire in 5 Man link. There was No dakini with mimetism which has a potential to hit with bs19 ignoring cover. Game has changed entirely.

    There are 2 solutions here. 1. Giving them 5man link. 2. Giving them mid table nice troops.

    Scycla is strong. But phalanx special, it could be a cool idea since They have nothing in defensive side in mid table. No mines, No mad traps, koalas or whar ever. Atalanta is awesome ok. But must a player always take her?
     
    #2639 Angry Clown, Feb 22, 2021
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2021
  20. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Just because you don't use Thrasymedes, Andromeda or Ajax doesn't mean they don't exist, and just because you don't find Andromeda in particular to be nice does not mean that Andromeda is not particularly concerning from a game balance and dynamic perspective.

    Cherry picking the absolutely strongest options from a large number of sectorials does not make for a good argument without putting stuff into perspective. Take the linked Rui Shi for example; I don't agree that Dahshat is particularly strong like they were in N3, in particular in comparison to Steel Phalanx they seem to be lacking. The crit changes hit them negatively, the increased average armour in the meta means they spammed shots no longer count for as much, and the alterations to smoke means it's harder for McMurrough to carve a path up the table. The new power piece of that sectorial is the Maghriba, IMO.

    And you forgot the caveat to both of your solutions; remove Enomotarchos and the hyper flexible links as a result.