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The definite N4 Comments, Suggestions, Ideas, wishlist's and Bugs that need fixing thread

Discussion in 'Access Guide to the Human Sphere' started by psychoticstorm, Aug 6, 2019.

  1. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    ZOC AROs like that are also fun to play around. You see it mostly with IMM-1 were you think very carefully about giving you opponent an ARO. I often exploit it on my side by using incidental ZOC AROs to Set Perimeter Items into Standby Mode.

    Also a stealth buff to Stealth (preventing ZOC AROs becomes more important the more common they are).
     
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  2. CabalTrainee

    CabalTrainee Well-Known Member

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    Ariadna doctors who have to work on patients without a cube would like a word with you. Doctor Fireaxe has a tendency to use the wrong arm for surgery work.
     
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  3. Hachiman Taro

    Hachiman Taro Inverted gadfly

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    Also, anyone who thinks 13 is 5% more than 12 I have a lot of things I would like to sell to you.
     
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  4. colbrook

    colbrook Grenade Delivery Specialist

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    I assumed they meant 5% higher chance of passing the roll.
     
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  5. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    Sure, but that undersells the difference. The Trauma Doc is 14.28% more likely to fail a single Dr-roll than a Dak or Tomcat. That's a not insignificant improvement.

    It's also worth noting that the Kamau + Trauma Doc combo does a great job of keeping the Kamau up. So dismissing the Intruder/Observance/Grenzer + Dak/Tomcat combo (in an environment where Shock is nerfed) is, in my opinion, short sighted.
     
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  6. Hachiman Taro

    Hachiman Taro Inverted gadfly

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    Exactly, it's a very common (I assume mostly non deliberate) way of under representing significant differences in values.

    After all there's a difference of only 15% between 75% and 60%, but anyone who has played Infinity knows a 15 characteristic is significantly better than a 12, more so than saying 'it's just 15%' would imply.

    15 is actually 25% more than 12 because 12+3 = 15, and 3 = 25% of 12.

    Just like a 20% chance is double as likely as a 10% chance, not 1/10th more likely, even though there's 1/10th more chance of it overall.

    It's important (and not always easy) to math correctly.

    I'm not even sure I expressed it right here, lol. Sure someone will correct me if not. I'm not a math major.
     
    #2386 Hachiman Taro, Apr 19, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2020
  7. loricus

    loricus Satellite Druid

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    21 CC double your crit chance :p
     
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  8. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    A 5 percent units increase from WIP 12 to WIP 13 is an 8.3% increase in chance to succeed but more importantly a 12.5% decrease in failure rate.
     
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  9. Armihaul

    Armihaul Well-Known Member

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    sometimes this gets absurd... so we now can assume again that command token are allways avaiable? some of those that "assume" that now, had told in other occassions that it should not assumed, but ok.

    you know, CT were a free gift and is not given into account in the costs, so the fact that some factions had access to all token options, and other didn't was another of those strange CB that some agree and other disagree if they were a good thing. But yes... having it is better than not. The curious thing...if we take cubes into account, having WIP 13 is less than 5% better than having WIP 12 in single die rolls. With rerolls, the WIP 13 guy will get an 87,75% chance of success, while the 12 WIP guy will get an 84%... a 3,75% difference instead of the incremental 5% for each value of a D20.

    Another different topic is when there are more than 2 or more dice in the roll, then an increase of 1 in the value is not 5%, but that's becauese the 5% is only valid for normal die rolls, for 2 dice the values change, and also we have to take the opponent R and crit into account
     
  10. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Yes, and a WIP 13 Doctor has 95,7% chance if you spend 2 CTs or, as I did in my most recent game of Decapitation, 98,5% chance after spending 3 CTs - that's an almost guaranteed chance to kill your LT.
     
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  11. Armihaul

    Armihaul Well-Known Member

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    My point is that, if you put rerrolls into account, that 5% difference becomes even smaller. Obviously, it will be better having the re-roll options than not having it, but when comparing 2 doctors that have that option, there is no need to use the re-rolls, because just that: they both have access to it.
     
  12. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Burst on Multi Sniper's DA went down to 1. Seems like a unifaction of MULTI to all be Shock/AP at full burst and DA at burst 1 (unless it's a MHMG in which case it is EXP at 1).

    What does that mean for T2 and Viral?
    I can easily see Viral becoming the new BTS Shock, but T2 is more interesting. T2 snipers are already very cheap compared to pre-nerf Multi Snipers and the same can be said for T2 Rifles
    (For reference T2 is priced similar to Multi, but with lower SWC where applicable, in spite of shooting equivalent ammo to the low burst, and best, variant Multi has at full burst)
     
  13. fatherboxx

    fatherboxx Mission control, I'm coming home.

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    I would be more concerned about Plasma Snipers
    T2 snipers are not linkable
    For Viral there is one good core (or tricore) option of Taagma - thankfully it cant take mates, has no mimetism and has average bs
    Unidrones being untouched by the change would be rough
     
  14. Armihaul

    Armihaul Well-Known Member

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    to me seems a bad move. Most of MSR were almost never used, because fixed and already expensive SWC. In the end, it will depend on the final cost of the weapon, but if it remain similar as it is in n3... I think it will get out even more units (only a few TO and some already good troopers in fireteams will use it for aro). Also, this kind of change will make a tipical weapon against light infantry more suited to hunt heavy armored troopers instead of its típical objective.
     
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  15. Melkhior

    Melkhior Doing filthy things for EI

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    I disagree about plasma snipers. They will probably lose blast mode and they cost more than Multi snipers (+4pts over multi sniper), so CA already pays for better effects of the weapon.
     
  16. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    I don't think linkability is a major concern here so much as the effect that a properly kitted unit with the gun can be reasonably expected to have, so if a Multi Sniper has Double Action nerfed due to such concerns, I think it's reasonable to expect that a Viral Sniper and T2 Sniper (and corresponding Rifle versions) face either increased costs or similarly reduced performance.
    Mostly because the game doesn't discriminate whether the Multi Sniper is carried by a vanilla Moderator or a Varuna fireteamed Kamau - the "upgrade" compared to a Combi armed miniature from the same unit is going to be +8 and +1.5SWC (most of the time) in all cases. So whether we're talking about the solo Nikoul in Tohaa, Marker state Major Lunah in ISS or a Fireteam Core Lasiq in Hassassin, a Viral Sniper would "cost the same" in a vacuum.

    In either case, as pure speculation I think we might see some hefty changes to the B2+ "double action" equivalent weapons

    I kind of share this concern, however, I do think that Shock will make an appearance in B2 mode which will make Multi Snipers reasonable against most Light Infantry and the lost of DA in high-burst means that Multi Snipers will go down in usefulness against low to medium armour (i.e. up to and including ARM 7).
    I think that with some very few exceptions *coughkamau* Multi Snipers are already a tiny bit too expensive (either on the SWC spectrum or the points spectrum), and unfortunately, CodeOne doesn't indicate the price going down.
     
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  17. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    Honestly, if the result is MSRs that are lower SWC but the same cost as MLs it puts them in a useful position. A +5pts, 1 SWC swing weapon is cheap enough that it offers a good option.

    We also don't know how Stun ammo functions. I can easily see it as Para. Which if anything would leave MSRs potentially more useful than they are now.
     
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  18. Brokenwolf

    Brokenwolf Well-Known Member

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    For me, the reduction of burst in the active turn for MSR DA ammo makes sense. The MSR is a really good weapon and has some of the best range bands in the game and ammo flexibility. But DA in active encroached in the niche that was supposed to be for feuerbach and missile launcher. It also made the AP mode a worse choice for most targets.
     
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  19. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Wholeheartedly agree, but at the same time the 1.5 SWC is crippling, so the tech advantage over a regular Sniper is a defacto disadvantage.
     
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  20. toadchild

    toadchild Premeasure

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    I'm kind of excited by the possibility that MULTI Sniper Rifles might actually be able to shoot Shock ammo now.
     
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