I've been told by someone rather vehemently that Bolts are invaluable for limited insertion list. Having never played a limited insertion game in my life I can't comment but I guess having a high cost toolbox makes sense in that setting.
'eh... MAYBE. Even then, there's no lack of expensive things to take in NeoTerra, so Fusiliers are still really tough competition to beat.
Limited Insertion, Biotechvore I swear by bolts in this format (actually, i swear by a single list Squalo LT 5 x Bolts incl. spitfire, 2x dropbears hacker and paramedic? 2x Bulletteer with spitfire engineer with PalBot Auxilia I think (it's been too long) It takes ~11 orders to move everything out of the zone and can be done whilst firing a few times (using Command Tokens and LT orders makes this easily doable) You then can have a CQB link team, drop bears and bulletteer/squalo in suppressive fire in the middle of the table... go first and watch people cry.
Well, maye. The difficult part is Bolts aren't great at dealing with top notch units at long range. But, being able to ignore E/M weapons in a format where they are golden is a selling point. I personally think that except some HI links well supported and the one equiped with E/M LGL with X-Visors, link teams just suck now in limited insertion. The worst case is for interplanetary with the possibility to have an AD trooper who will throw drop bears to lock down squeeshy FTs. And Mirage 5 is the worst nightmare of FTs of 1W guys.
My go-to with question for any list facing Biotechvore is: "Can I get everything out while facing down a Q-drone?" With the Squalo+Bolt list, you have basically 1 order in cover to try and silence the Q-drone (43% chance) before having to move into the open and rely on a 28% chance across 2 orders on the Squalo, I don't like those odds. That said, supporting a Squalo, especially in LI, is arguably the best role for Bolts at the moment.
You could down the Q-Drone with your Bolt ML. You have about 65.5% chance of taking it unconscious. And I don't see how You only have to use 2-3 orders to put Bolts out of problems of the biotechvore zone.
Are you using the infinity dice calculator for that? Because it seems really weird from my understanding of math. Edit: I get 38,8% for the bolt to get the drone unconscious And 39,4% for the drone to get the bolt down.
First off, the ML is not the Spitfire. If we're just changing the list, a Swiss HMG, a Uhlan or just a Hexa MSR do it better too. Second, you're reliant on the Bolts not moving up at all in the order you use to shoot to keep both cover and the preferable range band, no cover and the HMG in a +3 and it doesn't look good for the Bolt at all (unless you're happy sacrificing the ML, which you should be in this case). You have to move a S2 model more than 9 inches to escape the Biotechvore zone; the 8 inches to the edge of the zone, then at least a further 1 inch to get out, that is assuming you line up along the edge of your deployment, move straight forwards, and that there are no obstructions whatsoever. If you shoot, you can't Move-Move, but regardless, with a 4-2 profile it takes a minimum of 2 orders to get the fireteam clear and that leaves you with little leeway with regards to positioning. Are you mistakenly thinking you have a 12 inch deployment zone or something?
theres a few issues with that of course. Not the least its the entirely wrong sectorial, Baghs probably make a better range Link due to their better MSR profiles and access to a HMG and that you dont get the same support in the two lists. Not saying Baghs are bad, also keen to run them, but they are different in both role and context than bolts in NCA
Yeah, I know. It just make the bolts seem even worst when what they try to do is already done better in Pano.
This is my typical spiel for these threads Hands down the best way to take bolts is with a fully loaded (usually spit and ml+lsg with bears) core in group 1 and a bland fusilier link that has the LT in group2. Add whatever other candy and tricks ypu like, with most orders gping to group 1. The fusiliers in 5 orders and 1 CT can advance (usually with hmg or use hexasnip or to clear path) to decent position and go supp fire, use the lt order to get him into supp fire too. Another CT lets you start doing business with the Bolts. It allows you to set up to go the other way. Did they attack the bolts? Use fusiliers and other candy. Did they attack the fusiliers? Good. That's decent shooters that can unload on stuff or continue to reposition and supp fire or clear mines. There's still points for auxilia hexa rems and garuda or whatever mix you want. This arrangement is one of the most flexible armies I've played in NCA that can move 10 bodies about very quickly and adapt to more squirrelly opponents. It can be a truly all-comers list depending on how you arrange the other non-linked troops. It is, for me, nearly on par with aquila and/or swissguard minmax bullshit especially since the swissguard and aquila lists don't usually retain quite as much punch when they lose the heavy hitters. In a 10-man list, orc hmg LT, or squalos LT is your boy - but these lists lose flexibility in 10-order vs fusilier+heavy 10-order lists. THAT SAID: after playing nothing but bolts for nearly a year, winning 1 tournament with em and a win/loss record on par or better for them as I have for MAF, i think theyre costed right if their skills were bumped in some manner. Chiefly, I simply think bioimmunity should offer protection from other ammo types - likely Fire or anything that is a template. Just... something that makes that link a more questionable target for the opponent in a way the aquila or Swiss is wildly frightening.
No, I know very well Biotechvore. But you seem to say that just using one order to make only Move + Shoot is already too much. I'm wondering what you put in your list in Biotechvore to only be able to afford one or two shots. Your four other Bolts call always move while prone to gain just some few centimeters instead staying where they are. If the Q-Drone is already having a sight on your DZ, well, it is good for you. 2 shots at BS 13 against 4 à BS 5, it is 65.5% chances to take the drone out. If you have to shoot at the drone in its +3, then, yes, the Squalo is the best and this shouldn't take him more than two orders to take it out. The third option is just ignore him. It depends of many things but if odds aren't great and you can avoid it for one more orders, it is good to do so. Personnally, I'm not a fond of Squalo + Bolts in Biotechvore. I prefer Bolts + ORCs. I can use more orders on shooting and fortifying with two fireateams rather that one.
If you want to move everything out of the zone (and it's not always a good idea), you have to get 10 models a minimum of 9 inches forwards (and significantly more for the ones on 55mm bases). That is 2 orders minimum for the fireteam. That is 2 orders minimum for the Squalo, but you can use the LT order on that at least. That is 2 orders minimum for each of the Bulleteers That is 2 orders minimum for the Machinist. That is 2 orders minimum for the Auxilia. That is 10 orders total, leaving you with 1 left as a buffer to kill something before you have to move as part of the order. Now, you can use a CT to coordinate the Squalo and Bulleteers (Auxilia and Machinist can't 'cus of sync'd REMs), but if you're going first your opponent will limit you to one if they've got any sense, so that gives you a buffer of 2 orders at best. But this is all dependent on the table being set up specifically to allow you to move easily out of your deployment zone, which would make it a colossal failure on the part of whoever set it up and would also likely involve plenty of LOF for AROs. If the table is setup better, there will be little or no LOF into the DZ, but you won't just be able to move straight forwards with everything either. Going second's another matter, you've set your ARO pieces up to negate your opponent's free movement and hopefully the zone has killed a couple of his troops in his turn making your life easier, but you're also likely to be facing more AROs when you do move as he's moved troops forwards into better positions. Impetuous troops and/or smoke of some sort helps massively with Biotechvore, just have to reach for all of those when bringing NCA to the table...
Id leave the squalo in....2 bts rolls at bts6 str3 Id also take a deva lt..who cares when your nwi ect
So, it is more about your list where the problem sits more than the Bolts. First, Auxilias are, in this particular scenario, an error to me. CSU are way better since they can be coordinated and, depending on your Metachemistry roll, go out in one order but it'll be the most often two. So, if I'm using this list (not really fond of it but can work) : Neoterran Capitaline Army ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 10 BOLT Combi Rifle + Light Shotgun, Drop Bears / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 25) BOLT Combi Rifle + Light Shotgun, Drop Bears / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 25) BOLT Hacker (Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun, E/M Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 27) BOLT Spitfire / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 24) BOLT Missile Launcher, Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 27) SQUALO (Armored Cav.) MULTI HMG, Heavy Grenade Launcher / AP Heavy Pistol. (2.5 | 95) CRABBOT Flash Pulse / Knife. () DEVA Lieutenant (Sensor) Combi Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 24) DEVA (Sensor) Combi Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 24) MACHINIST Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15) TRAUMA-DOC Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14) 6 SWC | 300 Points Open in Infinity Army 2 orders for the FT 1 CO for moving the four remaining S2 troopers forward 1 order for the Deva sensor LT order for the Deva lt 1 order for the Machinist 1 order for the Trauma-Doc. So, this leaves me 4 orders before I decide to move my Squalo, which can go out in 2 Move+Shoot orders and I would still have 2 orders left. And I still can leave Devas behind for the first turn and heal them at the second. But, as I said, I prefer this list for Biotechvore : Neoterran Capitaline Army ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 10 ORC Lieutenant HMG / Pistol, Knife. (2 | 44) ORC MULTI Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 40) ORC (Fireteam: Haris) Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 36) BOLT Hacker (Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun, E/M Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 27) BOLT Spitfire / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 24) BOLT Combi Rifle + Light Shotgun, Drop Bears / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 25) BOLT Combi Rifle + Light Shotgun, Drop Bears / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 25) BOLT Missile Launcher, Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 27) BIPANDRA Combi Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 23) BLACK FRIAR (Albedo, Biometric Visor L1) MULTI Rifle, Nanopulser, Drop Bears / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 28) 6 SWC | 299 Points Open in Infinity Army ORCs in Haris are as effective against Q-Drones as Squalo but I move more guys in one order and ORCs are solid to hold ground. And if an MSV trooper is watching the path you chose to go out the zone, the Black Friar can be used to block LoF or even kill him/her.
Not to be rude, but this is what you keep the eye bleach at hand for. (And then you prepare the 30 hour dissertation why Orcs and Bolts are not in the best place right now)
This may depends a lot of your meta, yourself etc. but I can't agree about the fact ORCs are useless. Just because, first, they are our cheapest HI option in NCA. I constantly heard how much overpriced the Aquila was. Well, take the ORC in this case! 18 points cheaper, this will give you room for your Swiss Guard, Devas, Hexas etc. And the HMG can be Lt! Who said we don't have aggressive Lt to send forward in order to make profit of the Vet L1 of the Bolts? Isn't the ORC HMG Lt a good one for this? The fusiliers are bland and fairly Vanilla too and noone complains about it. To be honest, in games where you have to go forward and hold ground, I really prefer to risk an ORC as he is cheaper and still on the elite part when compared to what have the other factions. If he will die, so be it, it costed me only 40-44 points. That's better than a 70 points Swiss Guard.
It's not that ORCs are useless, they're just like Bolts, situationally useful but completely outshone by other options. And they're not cheap by any measure, only in comparison to the better HI available to NCA. I've run the ORC MR and HMG enough times, you have to brute force every firefight as they have no CH or MSV to help stack MODs. Trying to peel apart a Rodok fireteam is not pretty with an ORC, while a Swiss laughs at it. I'd love to see the BSG profile with grenades creating a CQB monster (or eclipse!), or see them drop a point of PH ('cus why 14?) and actually compete with other PanO units on price, or get a special fireteam option (Haris with Bolts! Give me a paramedic, a 2W BSG and Drop bears in the midfield for 0.5 SWC and <90 points).
