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Testing the Hulang.

Discussion in 'Yu Jing' started by Triumph, Feb 18, 2019.

  1. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    All of the above. Depends on the situation and what's needed. Throw smoke, rambo warbands, launch missiles. All have their time and place.

    Warbands are also useful to have around to shoo crap like impersonators and drop troops out of the DZ. It's mostly just cheap utility with access to weird attack vectors. The bulk of the work during the game is being done by group 1.

    It's tricky to pull off. You need to be out of LOF but still in LOF for the blast focus and really freakin close to the target if you try to activate biolocator otherwise you just get shot. I've never done it, but if I had to the easiest way would be to throw a smoke grenade close to a target, then advance a Kuang Shi into the smoke and activate biolocator.

    But that's some real corner case jank tech right there. You'd really need some stars to align to make that your best play at something. Maybe if my opponent was trying to defend an objective with say senor massacre or something, and throws eclipse on himself (or a Myrmidon link team throws smoke on itself). Then the play would be to walk a Kuang Shi in there so I can drop a missile on his head. I could see that catching someone out as it's an otherwise unique response to a standard defensive action.
     
  2. ObviousGray

    ObviousGray Frenzied Mushroom
    Warcor

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    How about tagging Hulang along our big guns? IA can serve many, maaaybe Yan Huo found his sidekick after losing shikami.
     
  3. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    That's probably your best bet, using the HRMC to delete things that could take out the Hulang.
     
  4. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    See that was my first thought when list building but the problem came back to:

    "Ok, Yan Huo deletes things in the open, Hulang digs out things that hides."

    "Wait, for these kinds of points, why the fuck don't I just take a Dao Fei to pair with the Yan Huo?"

    So I need to justify the D-Charge or E/M grenades to make him actually worth taking over a Dao Fei, so the list needs to work around that too.
     
  5. Knauf

    Knauf Transhumanist

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    If you are playing IA, Daofei are not an option, though.
     
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  6. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    The bulk of the discussion around the Hulang has settled on he wants smoke support and he's a fish out of water for IA. But to go there you would be asking yourself why you don't make use of your AVA3 Zencha instead who are legitimately awesome.
     
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  7. Knauf

    Knauf Transhumanist

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    I wasn't aware of this discussion. Thanks for the heads-up!
     
  8. Alphz

    Alphz Kuang Shi Vet. Retired.

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    I think the cc skills as well are a differentiator between them, so you could try to leverage that.

    Although cc is what I tell myself is a pro of the Crane and I've only managed to use that once in a blue moon.
     
  9. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    Basically yeah, it's alot more difficult to leverage CC skills without a marker state because more often than not you just wind up shooting shit on the way in.

    "Haidao moves towards you."

    "My ARO is a bs attack"

    "Guess I'll twin SMG him back as I haven't gotten close enough for CC. Oh. It's dead already."
     
    #29 Triumph, Feb 27, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2019
  10. Mc_Clane

    Mc_Clane Zhànzhēng bùzhǎng
    Warcor

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    My main concern as allways are the Direct templates and the Shotguns. Suprise attack+MA or smoke is the only thing that makes it work relatively good on that scenario. But that E/M grenades can provide a pseudo alternative immobilizing the enemy. That set's HIs and TAGs as the Hulang predominant prey

    Without smoke, ergo inside IA, It can be used as an "auxbot" of a Shangji SF/Haidao RF with Duo. the enemy must Choose to single shot you on the face or eat B4 of a relatively decent BS piece. But you depend entirely on the table scenery set up, the viable vectors of approach and the guts choices of the enemy if he/she survives.

    Another option is to seek the back of the enemy with stealth and cautious movements or even use the D-Charges to force unexpected paths through walls forcing the enemy to try facing. But as allways the problem is the Order drain (the main drawback of CC)

    If this alone is good enough to take a hulang... i'm not sure. But is still one of the few choices we have to take care of destroying objectives (maybe even the best one). On that missions... I can definitely see one of them.
     
    #30 Mc_Clane, Feb 28, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2019
  11. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    Yes I agree on that, the plan is to test it outside of that environment though as it's a bit of a no brainer for those missions.
     
  12. Sedral

    Sedral Invincible Officier

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    I've tested the hulang intensively since IA got out, and that's pretty much the only thing he has done for me so far. Basically, when you play a hulang, there's 3 way your opponent might react to his presence:

    - He'll hunt him down. Easy to do if you're playing IA, less so if you're going for vanilla and have a decent mid-field presence.
    - He'll try to pin him down and stay the hell away from him. Mines, perimeters weapons, all kind of AROs, anything that could be used to slow him, and make sure you don't have enough orders to do anything with him.
    - He'll just ignore him, because he's not really a threat to his list and/or he deployed well enough to effectively shutdown any attack. I had the displeasure to face starco's riot girl twice with my hulang, he was pretty much useless both times. And of course turn 2 he was gone, either E/Med or killed.

    So yeah unless your opponent serves you targets on a silver platter, either because he made mistakes or you cornered him, it's really hard and order intensive to actively do anything with the hulang, even in vanilla despite the smoke support. It's hard to get smoke where you want them for your hulang because when he pushes he's pushing deep, and your smoke tossers start in your DZ.
    Most of the time you're better off just moving him around to passively threaten your opponent. He is like a predator lurking in the tall grass, waiting for an opening while scoring objectives (specialist operative is a boon, really).

    Now a question remain: is what he can do worth 41/44pts? I'm not sure, really.
    In IA the cost isn't such an issue since everything is about that expensive, but he is mostly alone in the midfield, which means he'll most probably end-up as a bait and take some pressure off your DZ at the cost of his life. If you can keep him alive though, he can do the midfield work while your other guys clean-up the alleyway and stay safe. But wouldn't a zhencha be more cost efficient for the job?
    In vanilla he is pretty much a glorified kanren, and truth be told the best way to play him in vanilla is probably to not play him, and just have a kanren holo as a hulang. You have the threatening presence without the premium point cost, what's not to love?

    Finally, just a side note: the combi-rifle + flamethrower is by FAR the superior profile. Because of the flamethrower. It's a really good dead-man's switch (IE: deploy him entranched, if your opponent tries to get him, burn down the bastard who came for you), and it let you hunt down camo markers indefinitely with intuitive attack.
     
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  13. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    That is a fair point. I will keep that in mind if I can't get the SMG profile to perform as I want.
     
  14. ambisinister

    ambisinister Broken Zoetrope

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    LOL. Unfortunately it's now looking like the best way to use the Hulang is in Dahshat Company.
     
  15. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    I mean, it has less internal competition in Dashat company. I don't know if that's technically being better.
     
  16. Knauf

    Knauf Transhumanist

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    Between the Al Fasid, Saito Togan and Kum Bikers it does at least get plenty of smoke support in Dashat.
     
  17. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    Now that I think about it Saito probably actually makes the Hulang worse in Dashat.

    Why bring a Hulang when you can beat the shit out of stuff with Saito? He's got better deployment, better defensive mods, brings his own smoke, has a marker state, has access to surprise attack, and is a still a specialist and can still destroy scenery objectives with his EXP CCW.

    Oh, and Saito's cheaper. lol.
     
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  18. Knauf

    Knauf Transhumanist

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    If you look at it that way, lol indeed. The Hulang has E/M Grenades/ a DTW, NWI and Monofilament going for them, but Saito does look like a better overall package, I agree.
     
  19. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    We don't know if Saito comes as the 40pts package in Dahshat yet. Hulang is a hybrid fighter in a way Saito is not and can be properly supported by an Al Fasid, so the question kind of becomes "why not both?". (You know... besides that at this point you've not got many points left other than for a Ghulam link and the supports)

    In either case, Hulang are kind of knights, now aren't they?
     
  20. ambisinister

    ambisinister Broken Zoetrope

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    Even taking Saito into consideration, I still feel like i'd be more inclined to take him in Dahshat than I would in either IA or Vanilla, but as you point out, he is somewhat outclassed there as well. But that's more of a first blush response. I dunno. I think what it comes down to for me is that I really like the idea of the Hulang and would really like to be able to use him without needing to engage in list building contortions to make him viable. Building a list around a TAG makes sense. Building a list around Hulang? Not so much.
     
    SKOZZOKONZ likes this.