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Terse Teutonic Trepidation

Discussion in 'PanOceania' started by Judge Dredd, Nov 21, 2018.

  1. Skoll

    Skoll Well-Known Member
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    technically our worst cc knight at f2f rolls, also only 2 points cheaper than hospitaller hmg's new cost.

    So teuton has to at minimum go down in cost.
     
  2. Solar

    Solar Well-Known Member

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    This feels like a hugely semantic argument, tbh. Yeah at CC ftf rolls which the whole point of which is he doesn't have to make.

    Do we really have to go into why Berserk on a two wound guy is good?
     
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  3. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead
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    @Solar, I won't argue that Berserk is a good skill here. Yes, it would be a good base to build the rest of the unit upon. The problem is that it's not being done. Instead Teutons get a standard weapon set - Combi and Spitfire - plus PFaust, which certainly isn't a CQB weapon. No shotguns, no DTWs, absolutely nothing that would say "this unit wants to get up close and personal - aside from that Berserk. And when comparing Santiago toolbox one one hand, and Teuton's capability for berserk on the other, I'll go for Santiagos almost every time. And so will most MO players.

    I know I've said it a few times, but I'll repeat - for me an obvious solution would be to push Teuton further into that "CC monster" spot, so the roles with other knights won't overlap so much. BS 13, no PFaust of Spitfire, EXP CCW all round, weapons including DTWs, shotguns, SMGs, Grenades, Eclipse Grenades - instantly better.
     
    #63 Stiopa, Nov 27, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2018
  4. Skoll

    Skoll Well-Known Member
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    Much like stiopia said. Nothing says cc about the teuton. Hell on the spitfire profile, you are sitting on an AP ccw, so you need to berserk twice, almost guaranteeing you'll die in return.
     
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  5. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    That really makes a lot of sense with what CB has done with the rest of the Knights. Each order has a distinct tabletop role now.
     
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  6. theradrussian

    theradrussian Well-Known Member

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    Expecting CB to make sense is a recipe for disappointment :P

    I expect them to not change in the slightest, that way I shouldn't end up disappointed if I don't like them.
     
    #66 theradrussian, Nov 27, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2018
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  7. Elessar

    Elessar 80stalgic console cowboy

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    Maybe they will never get stealth per se or through MA because they charge into melee shouting #DEUSVULTed

    Anyway the Stiopa take on Teutons is so good that it is too good to be true. CB will probably let us down here I fear, but how I do hope to be rebbutted ... yet it will be not. At least I hope they will get THEIR role, at least it will be fun time to time to play'em.
     
  8. Ixidro

    Ixidro Deep agent infiltrated in PanOceanian HQ

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    As far as we know, CB has tweaked or overhauled each Military Order so far. Even the already stabilished ones (Montessas, Santiagos). Also they nerfed the go-to one (Hospitalliers) and gave the Magisters a fireteam core option again. The whole 3rd Offensive of the EI is meant to recover the key to the Tzechi Compilator, located in the Teutonic Order Monastery.

    I know all of this discussion is basically speculation until profiles arrive, but für die Liebe Gottes why are you so disapointed already??? Maybe we won't get what we like/expect, but changes will definitely arrive. And at this point Teutons are shite so every changes they make will be an improvement.
     
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  9. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    With everything CB has done to the Knights, I'm rather optimistic that the Teutons will get a solid niche that the other knights don't fill. Right now, that's looking like solid CC monsters (I'm guesstimating close to Domaru or Tanko here, pretty beatsticky), though I could be mistaken.

    But yes, it is most definitely possible CB will screw it up. Lord knows that it's possible, look at all the hate and discontent around Yu Jing.
     
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  10. theradrussian

    theradrussian Well-Known Member

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    What makes you so sure that "changes will definitely arrive"? I'm personally expecting them to drop in cost by 2 or 3 points, and that'll be that.

    Because the currently provided info is what we have to go on, and we are making inferences on the basis of it. We shouldn't hope for a raiden -> ryuken revamp of them, because those historically only come with a new sculpt, and the current teuton profiles highlight that CB had no idea of what they wanted to be.

    Also because we have learned to manage our expectations, rather than to hope for a linkable, non hackable SSL2, mimetic high-BS HI with AP-hmg :P
     
  11. Ayadan

    Ayadan Knight of the TAG Order

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    If the Teutons just drop down by 2 points and receive a DA CCW, it will be enough IMO. They will be way cheaper than Santiagos and as effective in most of the case. If you need a specialist in a Teuton FT, you still have Koni or a Sergent to keep the price damn low if you don't want to pay for a Santiago. Or the Teuton can be an excellent solo knight. 35 points for a HI with Spitfire is damn cheap. Honestly, the Teuton was already a good cheap solo knight. What just lacked was a good HMG option to clear the path and we have now the Tikbalang for this. I play a lot of knights in my Vanilla lists and they do pretty well without FT bonuses so I don't see why we should stick all the time with the five knights FT.
    Where are the suggestions about the Sergents FT? I haven't seen any here while I'm thinking it could be one alternative that should be studied.
    Even a Sergent FT with a Santiago and 3 FK should have been proposed now.

    EDIT: what about this?
    [​IMG] Military Orders
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────
    [​IMG]5
    [​IMG] ORDER SERGEANT Paramedic (MediKit) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15)
    [​IMG] KNIGHT OF SANTIAGO Lieutenant (Specialist Operative) Spitfire, Nanopulser, E/M Grenades, D-Charges / Pistol, DA CCW. (1 | 43)
    [​IMG] FATHER-KNIGHT (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, Nimbus Grenades / Breaker Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 46)
    [​IMG] KNIGHT OF SANTIAGO (Killer Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, D-Charges + Tinbot A / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 38)
    [​IMG] FATHER-KNIGHT Missile Launcher / Breaker Pistol, DA CCW. (1.5 | 49)
    2.5 SWC | 191 Points
    Open in Infinity Army
     
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  12. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    All the other changes, despite many of us saying, hey, the Montessa already had a niche.

    There will be changes, probably significant. Though dropping price by 15pts across a link team counts as significant in my book.


    Well, the major revamp on the Ryuken was the ODD SMG, the other profile is identical to the old Raiden. But yes, you shouldn't get too crazy over what to expect.
     
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  13. McNamara

    McNamara Merc Rep

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    Exactly, look at Singh and Rao, they didn't change a bit, while they touched a lot of other stuff in SAA. Why they skipped those two? No reason! They have a track record of just doing random useless stuff.
     
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  14. theradrussian

    theradrussian Well-Known Member

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    Because they want to keep the meme of Singh being useless alive :D
     
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  15. theradrussian

    theradrussian Well-Known Member

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    Teutons still bad, called it.

    Except maaaaybe the NCO spitfire, but 2SWC may easily kill that proifle
     
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  16. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead
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    I especially like that joke about Magisters counting as Teutons for the purpose of fireteams, with Teutons still not being able to form one :P (I guess it's a mistake, but still). Teutons got marginally better with those two new options.

    On the other hand Seraph's Auxbot finally got Super-Jump.
     
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  17. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
    Infinity Rules Staff Warcor

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    Army only lists Special Fireteams. The normal Fireteams are listed in the Sectorial chart.
     
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  18. theradrussian

    theradrussian Well-Known Member

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    Will those be on the wiki too? If so, when?

    I ask as I bought the book but promptly sold it on to a friend after subtracting the libero fee :D
     
  19. McNamara

    McNamara Merc Rep

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    Other profiles list Fireteam: Core as a skill, not on the Teutons tho! It's a mistake.

    I am a bit curious about Father-Officers? Might be that Father-Engineers are officers too! :P
     
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  20. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead
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    It always listed standard Fireteams before. Is the change a design choice? If so, I believe it to be a mistake, it'll make people more confused when using Army.

    edit: scratch that, I think I get it. Teutons don't get Core, but can form a Haris, and Magisters can join that Haris, right?
     
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