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Team Tournament List Advice

Discussion in 'Haqqislam' started by Ankaa, Jun 17, 2019.

  1. Ankaa

    Ankaa Well-Known Member

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    Greetings fellow Knowledge Seekers! I come requesting advice from my Haqqislam friends regarding list building for an exciting team tournament at GenCon in 6 weeks!

    The structure is as follows. Each teammate brings two, 200 point lists and play together as one army. Each friendly army has it's own LT that it keeps track of wrt LoL for it's own force, but each team chooses *1* Data Tracker when applicable. My partner will be playing Caledonia and I will be playing Haqq of course but I'm not sure whether I will be on Ramah, Hassassins or Vanilla.

    The missions are Biotechvore, Frostbyte and Safe Area. Right away I feel major pressure to play a sectorial since fireteam efficiency is critical for BTV. At that point, it makes me want HB for Asawira but if I play Ramah I can have fireteams AND play Tariq as a rambo piece. Having access to Tariq overall seems strong to me since he can form the spearhead of the 400 points while having a flak shield of volunteers.

    The format of the tournament is certainly unique and there is a lot to consider I think. I'm so curious as to what people think and how to approach this interesting puzzle!
     
    Urobros likes this.
  2. Gabarra

    Gabarra Member

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    Well said, it’s a most interesting puzzle!

    I wouldn’t make too many recommendations without better understanding the extent to which the 2 lists function as one. Questions I would ask include:
    -Are the order pools shared?
    -Would Wallace’s inspiring leadership make your Daylami regular?
    -Would your Hafza be able to disguise himself as Wallace?

    My point is that you would get a lot further by getting together and building this as one 400 points force rather than two 200 points forces that happen to shoot in the same direction. Ask yourselves, what are the strengths and shortcomings of each army/sectorial? How would you go about in the other to capitalize on that strength or to cover that weakness?

    At a quick glance, CHA seems able bring an awful lot of smoke. To exploit smoke trick, Haqqislam has msv2 in 3 tastes now: mobile on the Khawarij; sturdy on the Mukhtar; or flexible on the Djanbazan. But none is available in Hassasin, so personally, I would ditch that option.
    On the other hand CHA doesn’t have offensive hackers; multi wound troops outside the werewolves or particularly impressive specialists. Which of our troops could fill those gaps?
     
    Ankaa likes this.
  3. Errhile

    Errhile A traveller on the Silk Road

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    @ 1: I don't think they would, as each of the armies has a separate Lt. and thus keeps Order track and LoL separately.
    @ 2: Again, I don't think so. Wallace isn't their Lt.
    @ 3: The old ruling for Holo L1 said "anything that is legally fieldable for a given army". Wallace is not a part of any Haqq roster. Moreover, position of a model in a Combat Group is, if memory serves me, Open information. So you'd have to have that Hafza in one of the Haqq CGs - making it pretty obvious he isn't the real Wallace.

    Regardless, kudos points for thinking outside of the box, @Gabarra :)
     
    Gabarra likes this.
  4. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    First thing you need to ask is turn order and smoke duration: Everytime I played 2vs2, it was A1, B1, A2, B2 (so alternating between players and teams), and smoke would not last for your partner.

    Second thing, since you carry an IMP trooper, is how are mixed groups of Tohaa OR CA plus a human faction considered: human (so you have 2 levels of IMP) or Alien (son only one).

    Second thing, less important dor you but critical *against* you, is the hacking: will the team share repeaters? This can make certain powerful alliances... and a Barid hacker Lt can be interesting and not depending on the answer.

    For Biotechvore another option you have is to deploy infiltrators. Sure, they have to roll PH-3, BUT if they succeed they deploy safely outside of the Biotechvore area, and if they fail they still keep their marker status, meaning you can risk a move+move. I would bring, anyway, a chain of command (fortunately, you have the Hortlank in Ramah).

    If you decide to go with ramah, a Core of "Ghulam" is a must, specially if you are going to bring Tarik. Pick a full Core without Tarik, since he can be added or not depending on your needs, and in the end he has a BIG bullseye (so does the Khawarij with FAT2 too), specially if he is Lt2, something you want after all, since the Ghulam NCO is a must to move that fireteam.

    A point for vanilla OR Hassassin, the Fidays, for the same reason the heavy camo is useful. They will either deploy in front of the enemy if you start (or where the enemy will be going if you go second, or ready to Engage and brake whole fireteams), or in your Deployment Zone because of the Confused Deployment, with up to 2 levels of Impersonation, allowing to do four uninmpeded moves if needed.

    I would bring an MSV2, however, since smoke will be aplenty, and even if your partner can't make smoke last to your turn, you both may need to ARO through smoke (and Caledonia has no MSV2).

    Finally, you need to coordinate with your partner. If he is going to make a glass cannon army, you need to be able to hold ground, and if he is going for a hard shell, you need some attack pieces.
     
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  5. Ankaa

    Ankaa Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for the help everyone! To clarify, they are separate order pools and each army has one Lt. However each team selects just 1 data tracker when called to do so. Each team spends all their orders in a given turn before passing back so turns are quite lengthy but smoke can be shared. I'm unsure of the ruling on friendly repeaters, I will need to check up on that.

    Right now I'm thinking of Ramah since I think fireteams are a must and I think I want access to MSV2 and Tarik. Here are my two lists:


    Safe Area
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]10
    GHULAM (NCO) Rifle + Light Grenade Launcher (Normal and Smoke Ammo.) / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 16)
    GHULAM Doctor Plus (MediKit) Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 16)
    GHULAM (Forward Observer) Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13)
    KHAWARIJ (Fatality L2) Spitfire / Pistol, AP CCW. (1.5 | 32)
    NAFFATÛN Rifle + Heavy Flamethrower / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13)
    NAHAB Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Submachine Gun + E/Mitter, Nanopulser / Pistol, Viral CC Weapon, Knife. (0 | 30)
    MUKHTAR (Multispectral Visor L2) Red Fury, 2 Nanopulsers / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 37)
    GHULAM Lieutenant Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12)
    FANOUS REMOTE Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    HAKIM Submachine Gun, Chain-colt / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 23)

    4 SWC | 200 Points

    Open in Infinity Army


    Biotechvore/Frostbyte
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]10
    TARIK MANSURI Lieutenant L2 Spitfire, Nanopulser, Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (1.5 | 59)
    GHULAM (NCO) Rifle + Light Grenade Launcher (Normal and Smoke Ammo.) / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 16)
    GHULAM Doctor Plus (MediKit) Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 16)
    NAFFATÛN Rifle + Heavy Flamethrower / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13)
    KHAWARIJ (Fatality L1, Multispectral Visor L2) Mk12 / Pistol, AP CCW. (0.5 | 36)
    LEILA SHARIF Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Shock Marksman Rifle, D-Charges / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 20)
    FANOUS REMOTE Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    RAFIQ REMOTE Rifle + Light Shotgun, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 16)
    FANOUS REMOTE Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    FANOUS REMOTE Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)

    3 SWC | 200 Points

    Open in Infinity Army


    Right now, my teammate is considering these lists:

    Safe Area/Frostbyte
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]6 [​IMG]4 [​IMG]4
    WALLACE Lieutenant Combi Rifle + Light Flamethrower, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, EXP CCW. (0 | 35)
    HIGHLANDER GREY AP HMG, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, CCW. (1.5 | 34)
    VOLUNTEER Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 8)
    VOLUNTEER Paramedic (Medikit) Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    VOLUNTEER Chain Rifle, Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 6)
    HIGHLANDER Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 6)
    McMURROUGH 2 Chain Rifles, Grenades, Smoke Grenades / Templar CCW (AP + DA). (0 | 32)
    UXÍA McNEILL (Covert Action) (CH: Limited Camouflage, Superior Infiltration, Specialist Operative) Boarding Shotgun, D-Charges, Smoke Grenades / 2 Assault Pistols, AP CCW, Knife. (0 | 27)
    HIGHLANDER Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 6)
    HIGHLANDER Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 6)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]3 [​IMG]1
    WARCOR (Sixth Sense L1) Flash Pulse / Stun Pistol, Knife. (0 | 3)
    HIGHLANDER Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 6)
    CATERAN Sniper Rifle / Pistol, AP CCW. (0.5 | 21)

    2 SWC | 200 Points

    Open in Infinity Army


    Biotechvore
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]4 [​IMG]6 [​IMG]6
    WALLACE Lieutenant Combi Rifle + Light Flamethrower, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, EXP CCW. (0 | 35)
    McMURROUGH 2 Chain Rifles, Grenades, Smoke Grenades / Templar CCW (AP + DA). (0 | 32)
    WULVER (Fireteam: Haris) T2 Rifle, Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (1 | 34)
    WULVER Heavy Shotgun, Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 32)
    WULVER Mk12, Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 37)
    HIGHLANDER Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 6)
    HIGHLANDER Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 6)
    HIGHLANDER Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 6)
    HIGHLANDER Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 6)
    HIGHLANDER Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 6)

    1 SWC | 200 Points

    Open in Infinity Army


    The current logic is for Biotechvore we are each taking an LI list. Tarik can rambo, Wulvers are durable and the Highlanders can make use of impetuous to get out of the kill zone. My core fireteam would be the primary gun platform while securing classifieds with the two specialists as they are able, and general order efficiency across the board should ensure no one gets left out in the viral zone. The highlanders also serve as a bit of a flak shield.

    Frostbyte would have a similar gameplan, with Tarik as our DT. McMurrough can do his best to hunt down the enemy DT while we protect ours, with the two fireteams providing fire/ARO support as needed. The Cateran can also pin down enemy troops.

    For Safe area I'd bench Tarik in favor of more specialists, some that can deploy upfield to get to the objectives quicker. Uxia is a big help here with superior infiltration. I'm curious to know what people think thus far!
     
  6. Errhile

    Errhile A traveller on the Silk Road

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    IMO you're short on long-ranged weapons, as is CHA here.
    One list with a Highlander Cateran simply wouldn't do it for me.

    Nothing effective over 24". This may be a hindrance (of course, a lot depends on your local meta and expected table layout - on a fairly dense table with no long lines of fire, optimal range of up to 24" might do just fine).

    I'd suggest rearranging the lists to include some. A HMG would be preferable, but a Sniper Rifle or Missile Launcher / Rocket Launcher (especially if in a Fireteam) would do.
     
    Gabarra likes this.
  7. Gabarra

    Gabarra Member

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    I agree with @Errhile!
    Moreover your friend is very light on swc, and I would think both of you are going to suffer for it.

    I took a look at the HMG options for Ramah, and I’m not sure what to make of it. From the lists @Ankaa shown the best fit seems to be the Ghulam, but in my opinion its not very effective outside a full strength core link. The other options seem to require a full rewrite of the lists (If it comes to that, I would probably go with a Fasid+Leila Duo). This looks like a good thing ask of your fellow Caledonian commander so you can retain the good coverage of specialists.

    Also... I was going through you safe area list, I’m not a big fan of the hakim for a mission like this. Sure, you bring his 23 points that could potentially change the ownership of a given zone. But this only matters at the end of turn 3, are you willing to play with 11.5% points less and one order short for that?
    Personally I wouldn’t...