That's a weirdly backwards process from what I'd have expected, and while there are some strange sections to pick apart in it all, nothing worth losing sleep over. Honestly, I'd have expected the character and story to be created first and the profile adjusted to fit with the character's story and place in the game after that.
Depends on who designed it, different people have different approaches. You could see this was pretty apparent in warmachine, some armies were designed very much with theme and fluff foremost in mind, and others *cough*Cryx*cough*fucking legion*cough* were clearly designed by someone who had a very keen eye for streamlined synergistic game power and very little regard for game balance. This is in line with Lei Gong who's pretty clearly a reaction to oh good lord IA is getting FUUUUUUUUUUUUCKED by the Kamau. Probably shows up randomly in WB for the same reason because I can't think of a good reason for him to be in that army thematically.
FWIW Gutier has said in past interviews he tends to design rules and profile first and fit the fluff/Background around that.
WTF are you smoking? Varuna is, by far, one of the easiest matchups for IA. MSV2 Wildcard sniper and camo infiltrators against an army that literally have no minelayers. Cancer matchups for IA are O-12, Ariadna (and all their sectorials) and Haqqislam (and Haqq literally shits on IA).
Because literally 1/3 games you wind up with a stunned Haidao, and an entire army with no ability to alternative problem solve their way out past the opposing Kamau. I'm not 100% sure where you're going with the minelayers thing but Varuna does actually have them. Did you mean perimeter weapons?
No they don't. They have a Minelayer Crocman, which is a dead profile, they literally have no other sources of Minelayers. Furthermore, you do not (mostly anyways) engage full link vs full link. You send in a Zencha and pick out a Fusilier, then shoot the Kamau with the Sniper. Varuna is garbage vs active camouflage, as their Helot wont drop camo to discover and their Jammers are prone/hidden, so won't get a chance to use his Sensor bonus for discovering in ARO. Active Camo is insanely easy to pull off against Varuna and it's very shocking to me that so many people are hardstuck with the mentality of only solving the Kamau issue via raw shooting power. That's like purposefully wondering into quicksand and wonder why you are sinking.
Unless there's some jank rules interaction that screws them over that I'm unaware of, I hardly consider minelayer crocs dead profiles. Mines aside, Helots should absolutely drop camo to roll a discover against a 30+ point model that's trying to get into your DZ, that's not even a question for a rational player. The Helot's entire job is to protect and foul up the enemy plan, this is right in line with that. They're like monks, they're expendable. Welcome to Helot life, who cares if they get shot at after. Getting shot at and eating orders doing so is literally their entire job.
It competes with other insanely good options and demands SWC in an army that can almost not spare any. What? A helot will be rolling on between 6 and 9’s in almost any scenario. The Zencha will either move out of LOF on his 2nd MOV or stay and let the link deal with the helot, who have now chosen to expose himself in an untimely manner. Besides, holding the Zencha/Active camouflage unit in reserves will severely limit any chance for him to encounter or deal with helots. All in all, Kamau (or Varuna in general) is not making the IA go “oh lord we’re getting FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCKED”, not even close.
Hardly true at all. There's plenty of alternative ways to spend SWC for Varuna and the value in misdirection is easily worth it. Said mine looks alot like a Jammer Cobra, and far more than one player has lost link teams to getting ambushed by an invisible guy packing mines that he didn't think existed. On a related note, my Hac Taos deploy more frequently as Camo than HD for the same reason. That entirely depends where you place it, and given that the priority against certain armies is allowing the Kamau to pin an expensive link positioning them to make the Kamau as much of a bitch as possible to remove should be a priority.
Why would the Varuna player deploy their Zulu-Cobras against IA in a way that makes no sense? They're the main way for Varuna to catch infiltrators going after their Core and especially against IA they will be secure in the knowledge that the IA player can't afford enough infiltrators/AD troops to both threaten the Zulu-Cobras + Helot defence line as well as the Core, so why hide the Jammers in a position where they can't force the Zhencha to make the hard choice of risking 80% discover versus having to FTF Helots? Yes, the Zhencha has better odds of beating a single Helot than the Helot has of killing or burning the Camo off the Zhencha, but whether that's even remotely acceptable risks for the 34-point Zhencha (and not too unlikely the only chance of taking down the 5-man bonus with great odds) depends a lot on terrain and how many orders you've got left. Besides which, this is the reason the Varuna player brought Helots. Not to mention that it sounds like the Varuna player will have even more problems with most other sectorials that can bring cheaper camo infiltrators and cheaper orders to fuel them with. Or Eclipse/Nimbus.
Back to Tao Wu, I think it would be interesting to have a "team-up" of him and Sun Tze, I threw together the below. Tao Wu helps mitigate any loss of orders first turn. Sun Tze gives his Lt. order to anyone, Tao can holo as another Sun Tze or something else. Imperial Service ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 1 10 SUN TZE Lieutenant (Advanced Command) MULTI Rifle, 2 Nanopulsers, Flash Pulse / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 65) TÁOWÙ (Counterintelligence) 2 Nanopulser, Flash Pulse / 2 Viral Pistol, Monofilament CC Weapon. (0 | 26) CSU (Specialist Operative) Rifle + Light Shotgun, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12) CSU (Specialist Operative) Rifle + Light Shotgun, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12) XI ZHUANG Combi Rifle + Light Flamethrower, MadTraps / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 20) CELESTIAL GUARD Hacker (Hacking Device) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 21) CELESTIAL GUARD Spitfire / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 19) MIRANDA ASHCROFT Breaker Combi Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, Monofilament CCW, Knife. (0 | 26) BOUNTY HUNTER Submachine Gun, Akrylat-Kanone / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12) MAJOR LUNAH Viral Sniper / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 29) GROUP 2 2 HÙSÒNG Yaókòng HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 25) NINJA Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Tactical Bow / Pistol, DA CCW, Knife. (0 | 29) 4 SWC | 296 Points Open in Infinity Army
I like the idea of using Tao Wu and Sun together, though I think that list will run into the issue of lacking someone to actually run the orders through to do the killing. I think the premise is solid but you'd want to avoid the duos and invest in a Crane Train or some Su Jians and Kuang Shi.
Yes but it was kinda thrown together with not much planning. Especially for a particular mission. However if start adding in expesive guys on top of TW and ST then it will become a limited force and then what's the point of TW? He's there to keep orders from being stripped and after that, act as a decoy.
Eh, not really. Kuang Shi make it possible. Imperial Service ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 1 10 2 SUN TZE Lieutenant (Advanced Command) MULTI Rifle, 2 Nanopulsers, Flash Pulse / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 65) TÁOWÙ (Counterintelligence) 2 Nanopulser, Flash Pulse / 2 Viral Pistol, Monofilament CC Weapon. (0 | 26) XI ZHUANG Combi Rifle + Light Flamethrower, MadTraps / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 20) CELESTIAL GUARD (Kuang Shi Control Device) Combi Rifle + Light Smoke Grenade Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 13) CELESTIAL GUARD Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12) CELESTIAL GUARD Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12) CRANE IMPERIAL AGENT (X Visor) Spitfire, 2 Nanopulsers / Pistol, DA CCW. (2 | 54) KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) PANGGULING (Minesweeper, Repeater) Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) GROUP 2 3 HÙSÒNG Yaókòng HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 25) HÙSÒNG Yaókòng HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 25) NINJA Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Tactical Bow / Pistol, DA CCW, Knife. (0 | 29) 4.5 SWC | 299 Points Open in Infinity Army Imperial Service ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 1 10 5 SUN TZE Lieutenant (Advanced Command) MULTI Rifle, 2 Nanopulsers, Flash Pulse / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 65) TÁOWÙ (Counterintelligence) 2 Nanopulser, Flash Pulse / 2 Viral Pistol, Monofilament CC Weapon. (0 | 26) CELESTIAL GUARD (Kuang Shi Control Device) Combi Rifle + Light Smoke Grenade Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 13) KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) SÙ-JIÀN Spitfire, Light Flamethrower, Panzerfaust / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (2 | 59) CELESTIAL GUARD Hacker (Hacking Device) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 21) GROUP 2 5 HÙSÒNG Yaókòng HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 25) DAKINI Tacbot Paramedic (MediKit) Combi Rifle / Electric Pulse. (0 | 15) GARUDA Tacbot HMG / Electric Pulse. (1.5 | 30) CSU (Specialist Operative) Rifle + Light Shotgun, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12) CHAĪYÌ Yaókòng Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) 5.5 SWC | 299 Points Open in Infinity Army Alot of things you could adjust with these. I think the only other thing you're going to run into really is your shenanigans will probably be a little obvious given that Sun Tze is usually deployed as an ARO piece. You'd have to have some serious balls and be willing to deploy Tao Wu in a similar fashion to get the desired effect against many opponents. That said useful for misdirecting shit like fidays though. Sun Tze still isn't a big fan of Impersonators. Just the fact that ISS get access to CI on a holo projector is nice even if it's not in your list as it'll still make your opponents really think twice about zapping your order pool on turn 1 in case they get screwed. That'd actually be pretty funny to do. Again still need the balls to deploy Tao Wu in overwatch to maintain the illusion he's Sun TzeV1. Might be good if you're going first, then the unexpected BS14 sniper starts actually shooting at stuff.
7 or 8 players at this point. And yes, that is literally my point, Varuna fucking sucks vs active camo. Try it some time.
Just noticed Taowu is priced exactly like a Kanren, which you're probably better off taking unless you really, really need Counterintelligence. Insane CC is nice and all, but pretty much every Infiltrator has a shotgun that they're fond of using on all but the toughest targets and the Kanren is more useful after that initial play thanks to its real gun, optional Specialist skill and Holoprojector L2 for Surprise Shot on the counterattack.
Like I tried to intimate; I have and my Zhencha usually gets caught out by Discover AROs from either their Messenger REMs or Zulu-Cobra. While Varuna might suck against active camo, so does IA and it's not like IA are capable of bringing several active camo without making big sacrifices. Hence, if your Varuna players are having problems with Zhencha it might just be that they're making bad priorities. Hell, considering the ranged options of the Zhencha, the Kamau themselves wouldn't be rolling terrible odds if they tried a discover at 17+". This of course changes if the board has a layout that makes navigating units from total cover to total cover easy, but what does skew games have to do with balance? Yes, but if you pretend to be a tough target like Sun or Hsien, keep in mind that a Kanren is worse than Speculo and Fiday, where TaoWu will be at least partially favoured against even against Al'djabel. (Hint: use a Viral Pistol against light targets like Al'djabel in melee, not the Mono CCW!)
I just re-read the article on Tao and noticed this part. That is why, like the troops of the Battle Pack Operation Kaldstrøm, its profile needed to be adapted to N3, losing some essence temporarily (which will recover with the launch of the new rules). I'm guessing for N4 he will have additional or changed rules.
I'm wondering if they're going to be updating how Impersonation and/or Holoecho 1/2 work. I think there was similar comment about how the Tian Gou work in one of the WB videos.
