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TAGs get Tactical Awarness

Discussion in 'Access Guide to the Human Sphere' started by Marduck, Sep 2, 2019.

  1. csjarrat

    csjarrat Well-Known Member
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    I'm really looking forward to see what happens, all the factions need a good rebalance as per usual for an edition change and that'll give us a right good shake down of the meta.
    There's a lot of complexity that could be stripped out for little loss.
    Genuinely exciting times :-)
     
    toadchild likes this.
  2. Stuffist

    Stuffist Well-Known Member

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    But are we ready to face all the whines (justified or not) from people seeing their favourite unit changed?
    I'm always confident regarding changes in rules, and I do trust CB to do a good job. But changes are widely negatively received, specially on forums where unhappy people are free to express their ideas while happy people remain silent most of the time.

    I'm not telling people shouldn't complain, and I don't think CB will do a shitty work - I am indeed quite enthusiastic with the N4. But I fear a bit to face double the amount of salt Uprising brought upon the forum. Let's hope this won't be the case! =)
     
    A Mão Esquerda likes this.
  3. csjarrat

    csjarrat Well-Known Member
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    So long as no more factions get split off we should be good. Most units in the game have got a use, there's just a few outlying units that need tweaking and a bit of internal and external balance to adjust
     
    Mahtamori likes this.
  4. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    Agreed. 90% of the Uprising salt was that it was atrociously written. 10% was that Yu Jing lost specific capabilities with still no good replacement (Oniwaban, Shikami, Aragoto).

    Now, if Military Orders got split off from PanO (theoretically possible, but unlikely), that would probably see as much salt as Uprising.
     
  5. Civilized Barbarian

    Civilized Barbarian Praxis' Lead R&D Janitor

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    I just thought of MO and Bakunin's Observance spinning off to make a religous fanatic faction and I almost threw up. Fortunately that'd be to close to O-12 mechanically so it'd never happen.

    I could see MO becoming an NA2 faction but after Uprising I doubt CB has the balls to do that again so soon.
     
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  6. csjarrat

    csjarrat Well-Known Member
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    Yeah that's not a faction I play or have much of in my meta, are many people using much MO stuff in vanilla? Would there be a big drop in function like there was in YJ?
     
  7. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn't doubt that for a second, but hopefully next time they feel they need to they'll do it properly so people are aware that a product they might buy is changing well enough ahead of time.
    They aren't big over here, either. MO seems more like a gateway drug than the real stuff of Infinity, but I imagine Pan-O would miss Jeanne and maybe DeFersen.
     
  8. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    Fluff-wise, it cannot happen.

    The Observance split off from the ecumenical Christian Churches after the ecumenicals decided to go with the AI. The Observance sees Aleph as the AntiChrist or maybe even Satan Incarnate.


    However, the SpacePope could declare a Crusade to get rid of the Combined Army, which would give a reasonable fluff-excuse for CB to split MO out into NA2. Though CB has not given as much notice of that as they did with JSA seceding.
     
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  9. Stuffist

    Stuffist Well-Known Member

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    Really, that's not what I witnessed.
    I joined this forum right after most of Uprising anger decreased (and started playing Yu-Jing like a few weeks before Uprising took place, with no JSA models lost in the process) - still today you can see most of the people complaining they lost this or those models with no replacement... Then what guys? The meta changed, I get that you might not like it but just suck it up at some point.
    As I said, I lost almost nothing in Uprising but I lived that with other games - I'd be happy to trade a cataclysm like this each year versus a non-moving fluff/meta.

    But my point wasn't to revive old pains and troll on the fact that people can't deal with reactance, sorry. I just wanted to highlight that whatever the quality of the incoming N4, we'll see more negative comments than positive ones. And it's normal: once you've pointed to all good things everybody agree on, there is nothing more to discuss than pain points / grudges. I just hope I won't get tilted by what I foresee as a difficult time to come. And if tilted, I will just move back from the forums a couple of months and just focus on my local meta until it settles down... For now, I should work on next online campaign instead of being the worst doomsayer the world has known anyway. ;)
     
  10. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Hey old timers! Time to chime in!

    Was the forums truly flooded with unusual amounts of negative reactions when going from N2 to N3? It sure as hell wasn't for HSN2 to HSN3. My experience with edition shifts is that it doesn't tend to victimize a subsection of players, instead it shakes up the entire game which makes reactions a lot more wide-spectrum and nuanced.

    The worst that can happen is that they only go for maintenance edition, the kind of edition change that other gaming companies does as an N3.5 or a "Release 2" or similar.
     
    Devil_Tiger likes this.
  11. ijw

    ijw Wargaming Trader, Freelance Editor (UK)
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    Not as much as for Uprising, but yes, there was a noticeable rise in negative reactions.
     
    meikyoushisui likes this.
  12. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    I do remember some complaints, mostly from people who didn't like the shift from "max realism" to "max gameplay".


    That's really what I'm hoping for. N1 to N2 was really a maintenance change, very few outright rules changes but a lot of FAQs incorporated into the rules. WarmaHordes would have called that 'Reloaded'.
     
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  13. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    Well, yeah. You are still seeing what I called the 10% complaining about lost capabilities, now that (most of) the anger about the writing has burned out. But there was a lot more anger about the writing than about losing things, IMO.
     
    Dragonstriker likes this.
  14. Alphz

    Alphz Kuang Shi Vet. Retired.

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    Yes. People will always complain. Its up there with death and taxes as one of the immutable laws of humankind.
     
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  15. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Yeah... but more than usual?
     
  16. Alphz

    Alphz Kuang Shi Vet. Retired.

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    Yeah I'd say so. Its hard to compare after uprising raised the bar, and I also think part of it is more people playing the game.
     
  17. Andre82

    Andre82 Well-Known Member

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    I feel the need to say that I don't care to much about the fluff, my main issue with that was the Hero units getting jailed and then getting a order buff.
     
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  18. theradrussian

    theradrussian Well-Known Member

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    N2 to N3 was overwhelmingly positive in my local meta, beyond our first few icestorm games missing the fact that the removal of orders via command tokens could ONLY happen in the first turn....not...every turn. Whoops :D

    Hoping that N4 will be a similarly big QoL change that opens up design space
     
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  19. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    That was B4ckd00r, not Uprising.
     
  20. csjarrat

    csjarrat Well-Known Member
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    Yeah and I've not met anyone yet who got into that plot line. Hopefully future events are a bit better thought out
     
    Hecaton likes this.