1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Hemos actualizado nuestra Política de Privacidad acorde con la nueva RGPD. +Info // We've updated our Privacy Policy to comply with the GDPR. +Info
    Dismiss Notice

TAGs get Tactical Awarness

Discussion in 'Access Guide to the Human Sphere' started by Marduck, Sep 2, 2019.

  1. RobertShepherd

    RobertShepherd Brisk antipodean

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2018
    Messages:
    1,110
    Likes Received:
    1,799
    Just setting aside the dearth of models with jammers that are specialists - because isolating a TAG in ARO with a low damage attack is not nearly so good as possessing a TAG in ARO with a very high damage attack.

    And just generally the overall AROs available to AHDs, while less universally applicable, are more powerful (with either positive WIP mods or higher damage or just better effects, in the case of possession). Also, an AHD turns every repeater into a projected threat.

    Jammers are useful tools. They're also overrated.
     
    #61 RobertShepherd, Sep 4, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2019
    Challenger, barakiel, Solar and 8 others like this.
  2. Sabin76

    Sabin76 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    1,294
    Likes Received:
    1,605
    Crits with mono under your proposal would be no different than a normal hit. My proposal keeps crits with mono as what they are now. Also, remember that the only reason CC works at all in its current state is because of crits.
     
  3. Tourniquet

    Tourniquet TJC Tech Support

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2018
    Messages:
    457
    Likes Received:
    499
    A scarily lethal normal hit, and on pieces that are more or less guaranteed to get to their target, crit and auto delete it, it's fine. Your suggestion takes the feel bad of a crit and just turns it into something more obnoxious where they can roll an arm save they cannot pass. I've always preferred the +3 dam suggestion for crits anyway.

    Crits being so integral to CC is more a problem of how CC is implemented currently than anything else.
     
    AngryPanda likes this.
  4. grampyseer

    grampyseer User of the "ignore" button
    Warcor

    Joined:
    May 18, 2017
    Messages:
    294
    Likes Received:
    515
    I am left with two possible conclusions.

    1. My analysis of my hobby's global competitive scene is spot on, and Corvus Belli has made a mistake.
    2. Corvus Belli's analysis of their product is spot on, and guys who play board games (like me) will need to play this out to see how it goes.

    Whichever shall I choose?

    Yeah, I know I'm the guy who says this every single time, but I think we'll be just fine.
     
  5. Benkei

    Benkei Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2017
    Messages:
    1,113
    Likes Received:
    1,580
    On the other hand, KHDs go through repeaters and will always be around
     
    theradrussian and Tourniquet like this.
  6. Sabin76

    Sabin76 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    1,294
    Likes Received:
    1,605
    I propose we move this to the crit and/or CC threads as this conversation is only about TA on TAGs if you look at it sideways on the 6th Tuesday of the 13th Month of the year.
     
    Goonhammer and Tourniquet like this.
  7. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    2,450
    Likes Received:
    2,643
    Which is why being relatively cheap for an AHD at 24pts and able to lurk in a marker state is great. Not to mention moving into repeater networks as a hacker against Nomads is for many factions, asking for trouble. You might be able to fight their AHD but you'll probably be suiciding your KHD specialist.
     
    Savnock likes this.
  8. Armihaul

    Armihaul Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2017
    Messages:
    671
    Likes Received:
    491
    Geckos paying for TA are so powerful that people will have problems dealing with them, and hacking is not good enough because nomads put so much khd that is not good.... Really, geckos will not be played in vainilla so much because kriza and task will usually do the same job better (and now cheaper), and corregidor has not so op hackers (at least not better than other factions) so that could be a real problem
     
  9. GuyIncognito

    GuyIncognito Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2019
    Messages:
    44
    Likes Received:
    96
    Lousy Smarch weather.
     
  10. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    4,821
    Likes Received:
    4,672
    I think I trust myself on these things often enough. CB made a mistake here.
     
  11. A Mão Esquerda

    A Mão Esquerda Deputy Hexahedron Officer

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    1,893
    Likes Received:
    1,913
    Well, you've yet to be wrong... and yeah, the person who considers themselves Cassandra when they lack, well, most of the information needed to make a decision, much less an informed one, versus the creators of the game, who might be lacking some information, but have far more available to them? That's a tough call.
     
  12. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2017
    Messages:
    6,021
    Likes Received:
    9,449
    Gotta agree with this. Had CB changed CC to have a higher burst value instead of massively higher numbers to cause instant-wounds, we could more safely mess with the critical mechanics.


    Yeah, got a storm rolling through that is dropping temps from the upper 90s to the mid 70s for a couple days, then back up to the (low) 90s...
     
  13. Barrogh

    Barrogh Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2017
    Messages:
    1,894
    Likes Received:
    1,626
    Re: price tweak based on old price.
    Worth noting that previously established prices are already questioned often enough. Before arguing about whether Guijia's upgrade should be 1 point cheaper than the one of Sphinx, it's worth asking whether the former being only like 15% cheaper than the latter is really representative of its practical relative performance. I'm fairly confident we aren't going to talk about one-digit price tweaks should we get to discussing that topic.

    Re: CB has better access to data.
    First, the data they can gather is still highly flawed, probably to a point that difference between CB's and playerbase access to information is likely comparable with various data gathering errors and biases.
    Second, interests of company and its customers do not align fully. For example, players may wish for balance ensuring variety of gaming experience for years to come while company just needs to sell its stock consisting of specific model sets in 2-3 months.

    Make of that what you will.
     
  14. grampyseer

    grampyseer User of the "ignore" button
    Warcor

    Joined:
    May 18, 2017
    Messages:
    294
    Likes Received:
    515
    Done. I can't see this as anything more than outsider speculation. I can't claim to go as far as you do in the assumption of motives.
     
    toadchild and A Mão Esquerda like this.
  15. A Mão Esquerda

    A Mão Esquerda Deputy Hexahedron Officer

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    1,893
    Likes Received:
    1,913
    The key factor differentiating between CB's use of data (even positing that it's flawed) is CB knows where they intend to take the game in 6, 12, 18, 24 months, while a player (who may or may not be looking beyond gaining an advantage in their next event) does not. Additionally, ascribing motives to the company (PUSH THESE MODELS!) without acknowledging their interest in a healthy game (what changes over the next few years will keep our company going and growing) in the long term while not doing the same to the player seems an interesting assumption to make...
     
  16. Barrogh

    Barrogh Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2017
    Messages:
    1,894
    Likes Received:
    1,626
    Fair enough, but keep in mind that Infinity is a game with rather high-variance RNG, considerable skill curve in some other areas and still reasonably long matches, taking up to entire evening meaning it's very hard for individual player to relate anything that happens in his actual games to widely gathered data on high-level matches.

    Simply put, due to basic design of Infinity its balance may suddenly become complete shit and most players following only their own matches won't notice anything.
     
    Berjiz, Hecaton and Abrilete like this.
  17. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    4,821
    Likes Received:
    4,672
    The problem is the company they (involuntarily) keep. Other minis companies are known to behave like that, and most players have experienced that at least once in another game.
     
  18. Spellbreaker90

    Spellbreaker90 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2018
    Messages:
    100
    Likes Received:
    65
    I think the point of the change is to test the water. Even without the 4 point increase in the low TAG the addition of TAC.AWAR. would have create the situation where you just go with the old fashion TAG because they are just better than before and still better than the rest.

    I think that what people don't see is that this is not a CB change aimed at balancing TAG with TAG, but at balancing TAG with the rest of the game. The only way to balance TvT is to rework a lot of their profile and point cost.
     
  19. csjarrat

    csjarrat Well-Known Member
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2017
    Messages:
    1,020
    Likes Received:
    936
    Yeah N3 has been a big edition, lots of stuff added and tweaked across the years. This is just a patch to tide us over till next year. It's Def time for a strip down and rebuild of all the factions
     
    Elric of Grans and theradrussian like this.
  20. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2017
    Messages:
    6,021
    Likes Received:
    9,449
    I'm still expecting this to be a change on the order of N1->N2, basically applying all the FAQs to the existing rules, rather than a change on the order of N2->N3, where CB changed design philosophy from "best realism" to "best playing"