Discussion in 'Access Guide to the Human Sphere' started by Marduck, Sep 2, 2019.
The KHDs are happy for that possibility.
Mary problems is simply happy XD
40k was a monopoly with a huge fan base managed by the biggest giant in the war games industry. Infinity isn't.
40K had a massive and dynamic community despite the problems of the game. If Infinity is to continue to succeed it will be because it has a strong community, if it isn't it is because the community is not strong.
Geckos were a little played because they were cheap, no because they were good. The same for anaconda. Other TAGs like tikbalang insteadz were played because they were better than most TAGs (even than some more expensive). CB had a great opportunity to check each one separately but they didn't... Seems that treatment is only for a few ones
You know, I really think you guys are underestimating the benefit of that extra order on the cheapish TAGs. Four points isn't much. And think about it:
Two Xeodrons generate 4 orders between them;
Two old Xeodrons (minus TacAware) and one R-Drone generate 3 orders between them, with the advantage the third order can be shared between all troopers in the same group. A Xeodron duo generating 4 orders pretty much makes them self-suficient, and the same reasoning goes for Scarface and his sister, or a Gecko Duo;
The Anaconda and the Iguana do suffer a little from this change, but these are models that usually are in factions that don't need to spend lots of points in big guys, so they can still handle the points hike while maintaining a 15 order list.
Let’s just say my Samaritan/Xeodron Haris is very satisfied with this change...
I wish everyone would chill out.
Four points for an extra order is an incredible deal. All the factions with TAGS just got a Netrod that doesn't take up a slot in the combat group and people are complaining that it isn't free? Sure, the expensive ones made out a little better, but ALEPH, Combined, and Pan O are still dumping over a hundred points towards the top level TAGS. At that price point four points could be the difference between a viable list or a disaster.
The point is the rule is a lot more useful for things like the Cutter/Marut/Avatar and specially the Tikbalang than to other TAGs and those other TAGs were already the less used ones, so this rule is kind of a fail. Great if you play PanO (color me surprised here), not so much if you wanted to play your Guijia.
@Anansi, a Tik is 85 points, I don't see where PanO is investing over a hundred points to get mileage out of this rule, and honestly 4 more points if you are already committed to a Cutter/Marut/Avatar is nothing (by the way you'll notice 2 out of these 3 factions ALREADY GOT NETRODS to make up for their expensive toys). I don't think I have to make a point about how much more efficient an extra Order is for a Cutter than for a Gecko or an Anaconda.
Also, people are not complaining that it isn't free, they are complaining that it is free for some factions but nor for others which, well, kinda sucks.
Well, it is free for any model that cost more than 75 points before the update. This goes for ALL factions, regardless of their access to netrods or similar. Again, you can't look at this in a vacuum. Geckos and Anacondas are in armies that can bring a lot of orders already, so these models paying more for their extra orders make sense.
And I disagree with the notion the basic TAGs like the guija got less incentive to be run now. I never considered the lizard for my Bakunin lists, but now that it can generate an extra order, I might use it way more.
When in mrrf you have 8 points metros the extra order for 4 points is a marginal bonus, the point is those 4 extra points are enough to make an already mediocre troop don't fit in a decent list.
In the other hand an extra order for 4 points or in this case for free to a TO twin flamethrower super agile elite tag like the sphinx is a huge deal.
Or any other great tag like the Tickbalang or cutter, avatar etc
I never said basic TAGs have less incentive to be played. I said this benefits the TAGs that were already good enough to be played A LOT MORE than the ones doomed to the shelf, which I don't think should be the case.
And having the TAGs that benefit less have to pay for the rule while the other don't is just nuts.
The TAGs already over 100 pts would be hard to fit with an extra 4pts cost, and now certainly some TAGs less used are more interesting (Heavy grenade launcher on the Squalo and Lizard), others go into more than great (TO ones...) and those paying... make it harder to choose them instead of the more expensive ones.
In that regard, inside of Corregidor I see it as a no change, with the caveat of the choices having been made more expensive; in vanilla, however, I find it hard now to justify the Iguana even with the Interventor combo, when the Lizard and Szalamander are "cheaper" (8-10-14 pts there, depending). The Geckos always were in that point of being "more than Brigadas, less than TAGs", and now, it makes it harder to choose them instead of said brigadas (now linking better than before, too).
Certainly, no TAG should have paid for this.
So, is ok to get rules for free when the troop is expensive and is good, but there is no problem that cheap ones that needed a buf because they were lacking, pay those points.
No, sorry. Is absurd that the good TAGs don't pay those 4 points when the not-so-good ones do it. I could comprehend if they looked at it TAG by TAG, and costed it acordingly its need, but 2 of 3 of the factions with the bests results of the last ITS are not affected like others, they just only get a direct boost in good troops (not op but they were better than any of the TAGs that are paying). I cannot see why it is ok
The breakpoint for price may not have been chosen very well.
My group and I talked about this change as a possible fix to tags but came to the conclusion it was a poor idea.
Our issues where it would mostly help the tags that don't really need help. Would contribute to a stronger Rambo run, something most tags don't really need a lot of help with and not address the weaknesses that prevent me from using tags in the first place.
Honestly I do look forward to seeing if more tags will be used. A bit concerned some tags might become oppressive however.
It gives me the slightest incentive (very slight) to use my Guijia that had been rotting in my case. But I'm not a fan of this change overall. Things like the Cutter or Sphinx did not need this kind of buff at all, they were already great. And that extra order on a Sphinx is going to get a lot more mileage than it will on a Guijia.
Bad TAGs will remain bad, the good ones just got better by miles.
Unplaytested lazy band aids won't solve this (or any) game's problems. Let's hope N4 does better.
I have been telling that since they released blanket MI buff last season ( which sadly persists in this season as well ).
I understand why things like these happen. I was at CB HQ this year, they are really really small company, with very few employees. Most people don't realize that. Now, this doesn't absolve them from responsibility when doing things like this, they really must hire more people to work on rules and seasonal stuff. Not to mention testing. But I understand why this happens every year. Hopefully N4 won't suffer because of it as well.
Yeah they kinda straight buffed the good ones and kept the bad ones maybe about the same (possibly slightly better) Avatar, Marut etc sure didnt need a free order more than an Anaconda. Its like someone got their > sign the wrong way around. I see the logic of cheaper ones get an order for spending less pts. But the expensive one can do a lot more damage with extra orders (and need one a lot more when isolated). Not game breaking. Bit wierd tho IMHO.
4 points on the "little" TAGS is what a 5-7% more on the overall cost of a TAG for an extra order. I don't mind if other TAGS in other factions don't pay for it (they are already expensive in their respective factions). I am more concerned what it means for the faction/sectorial the TAG is part off. An Anaconda in Spiral Corps which is lacking in HMG options and MRRF who can be a bit fragile, this is a serious upgrade. Scarface is QK's alphastriker, 1 order extra can mean more kills in his run for glory. 4 points is worth that.
Maybe it is because I own and play all the factions, that I do not suffer from faction envy that much. But these 4 points sound more like 40 for some and I disagree.
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