If you want the best TAGs play Pan O. Agreed. Or Combined Army. And that Marut ain’t half bad either. I have no problem with Pan O tags being better. Give them more perks to make them cool without piling logical inconsistencies on manned tags. Being vulnerable to expel at all? Sure, makes sense. Being just as vulnerable to possession? Kinda weird, but sure. TAG is removed from table and Pilot evaporates? Now we’re pushing it, but we don’t want step on the toes of the ejection system/symbol tags, so fine. Same as before, but the remote drones can stay out. That just doesn’t make sense.
Wip 13+, usually a good combat loadout such as dual assualt pistols or a KHD, and another abillity to do things, such as Dcharge classifieds or packing a MA EXP CCW. Pilots have way more benefits than Remote pilots, that makes up for it
Although it's fair to say that the main benefit for Remote Pilots (being able to reactivate the TAG if the Remote Pilot goes down) is very good.
I was reviewing the pilot stats, and honestly the thing that stuck out at me the most is that it’s just crabbots that are hot garbage. Both the the Aleph and CA remotes are WIP 13 like all the pilots. Pan O TAGS should be best, I agree, so bring their baseline at least to the level of the other rem pres TAGS. That’s not a problem of pilots being superior but rather Pan O getting the short stick again.
Only PAN-O could make a thread about a stupid rule which punishes manned tags into a complain about their faction thread. Geez guys, you have your own forum for this. Seriously, letting manned pilots stay around is more thematically sound than a robot staying around after the TAG goes to bits, and it isn't like they'd get to keep the order (which ejection TAGs get to do), so it would still be unique.
No.... I was pointing out complaining that manned tags are worse than rem pres tags is silly. And that asking for yet another buff above the pilots is a step way to far. And that if you want TAG that dont have the limitations your complaining about you can give up a bunch of other things to get them and play PanO rather than getting your cake and eating it too
Having the pilot stay (and not provide an order) is hardly a huge buff and it solves a patently absurd rules interaction that hurts immersion and lowers the attractiveness of products CB probably wants to sell (TAGs and Pilots). It isn't like TAGs are ubiquitous in other armies as it stands.
Pilots with Access to double Assault pistols, KHDs, Dcharges and MA1 EXP CCWs...With an effective 4W (3 for the TAG and 1 for the Pilot) Yeha those running round the table after the TAG in dead is a massive boost. They are already a psuedo Dogged for Manned TAGs. In the sense that a manned TAG can still participate significantly in the game after it goes UNC.
Fixed that for you. ...and I think you're going to have to qualify your statement regarding the "effective 4 wounds" as well, as well as the "pseudo dogged" since it takes significant investment to get the pilot out, it can't just stand there and keep threatening with AROs like is one of the biggest strengths of dogged.
which is why I said Psuedo. But it can, and will, keep being a threat to the game in active, killing your opponent and scoring objectives after taking 3 wounds. Ah its not got a knife, bloody heck I am not reading that right today.
It really doesn't take significant effort to get the pilot out. It's doesn't even cost a short skill. I think the balance is about right at the moment. I also think that delinking the Pilot and the TAG more significantly would be useful. But if you buffed Pilots in that way I'd advocate a marginal discount for G:RP TAGs and Operator TAGs. Compare the Dragoes and the Salzy. Under the present Rules I think the Dragoes is probably worth 4pts more than a Salzy, but it's a close run thing. Under rules that benefited Pilots more I'd be ok with a discount so that the Dragoes and the Salzy cost the same (or closer to the same).
Is the effort more or less than an automatic activation and does it cost one of your limited resources? Most pilots are roughly on par with the CA or Aleph Remote Pilots in terms of nuisance. It is the misrepresentation of what a pilot does that irks me, and the argument that seems to also assume that the piloted TAG is as likely to remain unconscious as a Ghost TAG. I think it's more reasonable to question why the CA and Aleph Rem Pilots have such high WIP than engage in a comparison between Pan-O and piloted TAGs Speaking from a Yu Jing perspective, with low WIP Engineers and a pilot that is... less than stellar. I'd rather have the Guijia have a Crabbot and Rem Pres (it would be a significant boost and, since Rem Pres has no cost, it would also not alter the Guijia's price). On the other hand, looking at Nomads, a faction with both high-WIP Engineers to mitigate the lack of Engineer re-rolls and arguably the best pilots, I can understand why it's a nail in the eyes of a Pan-O player.
While I think its a good point, would you give up your Kaungshi? Your Shaolin Monks and other similar toys for a Rem Pres Guija?
Strawman comparison if I ever saw one. Would you prefer it if Pan-O TAGs got pilots with Fusilier stats and a random assortment of 1-point weapons, specialist operative, and a pistol instead of Rem Pres.
No, its the opportunity cost associated with having access to PanO TAGs. You dont just "get the TAG" you get the design limitations along with it. And as for fusilier pilots, if that meant I got warbands smoke and cheap orders I would have to consider it. Of course, then Id be playing Yu Jing
I see your argument, but that's neither what's been argued in the thread so far, nor quite how units are designed nor priced.
well it kinda is, if you want your TAGs to be that good, your going ot have to give up some of the stuff that you get that people who get TAGs that good dont have. IE: its PanOs thing, no you cant have them As to list design, thats not entirely how individual units are priced or designed (though in faction must takes tend to be the cheaper units with skills only that faction gets) But it absolutely is how lists are designed as a whole and absolutely part of why PanO doesnt get smoke and warbands is because of its TAGs.
