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TAG and Anti TAG ideas

Discussion in 'StarCo' started by wildchevy, Apr 3, 2018.

  1. McNamara

    McNamara Merc Rep

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    Ah ok, thats what you meant!
     
    #41 McNamara, Apr 5, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2018
  2. wellspokenman

    wellspokenman Retired Intruder

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    I think smoke + MSV is going to be more of a challenge than people are expecting, and it's expensive, both in opportunity cost and in points. It also has hard counters, like full links and units like the Rui Shi or Aquila Guard. It's not going to be easy to move that link around and keep it so that the entire unit is out of line of sight when the link activates.
     
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  3. loricus

    loricus Satellite Druid

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    Smoke+MSV2 is something that solves a situation. If you're using it every or most games you either have opponents that fall in to the same trap over and over or you're wasting orders.

    Almost all long range AROs have SS2 or MSV2 or both anyways.
     
  4. Jassal2.0

    Jassal2.0 Member

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    I couldn't disagree more.

    Between the lack of ODD and cheap camo, compared to my home Bakunin, smoke offers me mobility and protection. MSV2 is a damn rare skill. Maybe it's excessive, but if dropping smoke means I'm invulnerable, then I'm all for it.

    An Intruder outside 32" is -12 to hit on his surprise shot and then -9 following. If he doesn't kill a Total Reaction Zond on the first go, then he faces a 1/5 chance of being critted, next.

    A Brawler outside 32" is -6 to hit raw and -12 with smoke. It costs one additional order -- ideally the Irmadinho's Impetuous -- but guarantees protection.

    Both of those snipers are non-ideal against a full link, tho the Intruder is slightly better at over 10pts more. Both snipers are 1W and I always go cheaper with 1W models. One critical and you're dead, right?

    StarCo is abusive at range. A fully linked Emily is BS16, WIP17 for her Combi/Pistol/Flash Pulse. She gets the magical -12 outside 32" while she still shoots on BS13 base or flashes/FO on 17s. She's probably the best FO in the game. She's also the best answer -- along with Raoul and his Drop Bears -- we have for 5-man links. Smoke is absolutely vital to our ability to move unhindered, achieve objectives, and flank the enemy
     
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  5. Leviathan

    Leviathan Hungry Caliban

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    ...oh yeah, Smoke. I'm so used to not having access to it / not using it that i don't even think about it anymore.
     
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  6. wellspokenman

    wellspokenman Retired Intruder

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    I never said smoke wasn't good. I said the MSV through smoke combo is harder to do and less effective than people who haven't used it a lot usually think. No decent player is going to give you easy shots on what you want to use it on. They are going to make you move. I think people will find moving 3 models around and not leaving them exposed will be more difficult than they expect. I am not convinced that using your haris team on that instead of Riot Grrls or Spector is going to be worth it, but I am in no way saying smoke itself isn't a solid strategy.
     
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  7. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    Honestly the capability is often less important to use than merely to threaten. It goes from 'I can be aggressive with my Sin-Eater / TR Bot / whatever' to 'I must be relatively conservative'.

    This gives you a lot more freedom of action to do things with Bandits or Raoul.

    Brawler MSR Haris + AD/Camo Attacker as a second order group is something that can happily leave the Haris defensive if there's no viable targets and spend the orders on the forward deployed trooper instead.

    People often forget that if a unit deters their opponent from doing something it can achieve what you want without even spending an order.
     
    Savnock, wendigo, Deltervees and 2 others like this.
  8. RattlerNxt

    RattlerNxt We are Bad, but We could be Worse.
    Warcor

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    This is a great Anti-Tag Faction. You have Emily + Raoul + HMG/EMauler Hellcat + Bandit ADHL. So many epic tools that if I saw a Tag across the field, I would just be excited. Last Tag I faced was a Seraph and Emily just EMed it right away. Anecdotal but StarCo is legit when it comes to tools.
     
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  9. Solar

    Solar Well-Known Member

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    E/Mauler HMG Hellcat is good for that business, absolutely.

    Especially with ADL5, you can go for a more risky jump and deploy close to the TAG before putting an E/Mauler right down. I'd invest in an EVO Repeater in that situation, mind.
     
  10. geniusloci

    geniusloci Member

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    May be mentioned before but Emily has X-Visor, meaning she can launch regular and E/M grenades quite far in a 5-man fireteam:
    With LOF:
    -0-8,16-24" B2 at BS16 (+0 range, +3 team bonus)
    -8-16" B2 at BS19 (+3 range, +3 team bonus)
    -24-48" B2 at BS13 (-3 range, +3 team bonus)
    Without LoF:
    All ranges B1 and -3 compared to above (-6 speculative, +3 team bonus).

    50% chanve to hit a bunch of dudes hiding in enemy deployment zone and a fair chance to hit unsuspecting targets midfield.
     
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  11. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    It's obscenely giggleworthy. Though you will probably want to buy your opponent an adult beverage after the game to take a bit of the sting out. And/or trade lists and let them do it to you.

    For TAG Duo, I think I'd take the Brigada Tinbot. BTS12 on the Anaconda, 9 on the Brigada. Hack this!


    I should warn you that Ikari and Druze Bayram can also do the EM LGL shenanigans, so you should probably expect to see that coming your direction if you see a Druze LGL in the Fireteam. Some people discount the things, for some reason, but a BS13 LGL has 50% odds Speculative Firing 8-16" outside a link team.
     
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  12. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    Tinbot doesn't change BTS. It affects WIP.
     
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  13. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    :cold_sweat:

    Says something about how often I have used a Tinbot/Deflector... (Anyway, that's what I'd like to do to the Shang Ji, give them Deflector natively)
     
  14. loricus

    loricus Satellite Druid

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    It's probably the single most common mistake. You don't forget when you're on a faction that can mix it with a Hacker since it makes it pretty powerful when BTS increasing would not.
     
  15. wellspokenman

    wellspokenman Retired Intruder

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    My trick for remembering this, because even with Nomads you can go for quite a stretch without it coming up:

    Firewall is something you hide behind and it provides cover, -3 to hit, +3 BTS. KHDs ignore cover.

    Tinbots are always on. Tinbot A is hacking Mimetism (-3). Tinbot B is hacking ODD (-6).
     
  16. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    Note Firewalls don’t provide cover. They add to your BTS in a different way. The result is:

    An Interventor behind a Firewall hit by Stop! (Breaker) would be at BTS (9+3)/2 = 6

    Whereas an Interventor in cover hit by a Breaker rifle would be BTS 9/2=4.5, 5+3 = 8

    Why? Because.
     
  17. wellspokenman

    wellspokenman Retired Intruder

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    Well, no anology is perfect. Also, your post confused me (no coffee yet), until I realized that it is how I've always done it. Still doesn't really make sense though.
     
  18. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    The post or the rules interaction?
     
  19. wellspokenman

    wellspokenman Retired Intruder

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    Probably just the Math, but the rules interaction is wonky as well.
     
  20. loricus

    loricus Satellite Druid

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    You can't reduce the Armor/BTS from cover not that bad if you use English instead of math to explain it.
     
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