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Symbiomupdate

Discussion in 'Tohaa' started by colbrook, Mar 21, 2019.

  1. Cothel

    Cothel Well-Known Member

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    To be fair, you don't really need a Symbiomate when your job is being the foot rest for an Avatar... :(
     
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  2. TheRedZealot

    TheRedZealot Well-Known Member
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    Honestly i think I've seen the Avatar maybe 5 games in 10 years of playing? And I've run the Gorgos a minimum of 70 games. So he will always be a big doofy TAG close to my heart. RIP Dual Flammenspear.
     
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  3. Wyrmnax

    Wyrmnax Well-Known Member

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    Thats actually a really good nerf.

    It kinda kills its usefulness on the Gorgos - ok, thats true.

    And it reduces its effectiveness on anything else.

    ARM 9/12 with the now improved Total Immunity is still pretty decent - it makes it forcing a wound on a TAG with normal ammo - not trivial to do. But it does go away from the complete non-interactivity and free movement that it allowed. You can still depend on your mate to absorb damage for you when you try those things like putting yourself in a position to ftf 3 different people at once, but now there is a risk to it.

    Forcing it to be used on the 1st time you get shot will make a suicide chain rifle viable to kill the mate, yes. But then again, there are only 4 units in the game where that was not a viable tatic in the first place - Gorgos, Neema, Ectros and Rasail. And the last one is the only one who saw table frequently.

    On my side it is a welcome nerf. Now you feel you can actually do something against someone with a mate, instead of the old mate that you always felt you were risking your troop for pretty much no gain ever.

    And mates are still trivially cheap on someone that bring CoC to the table anyway.
     
  4. TheRedZealot

    TheRedZealot Well-Known Member
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    I suspect you'll find there are a fair number of people that run the Ectros or Neema as well.

    My only real 'complaint' with this change to Symbiomates is it seems like it makes the mates still solid on 1w units and much less solid on Mutliwound Symbionts. Where 1w Symbionts were already good but 2+Wnd symbionts were not amazing. I'd have liked to see it more like +ARM/BTS or something. Similar feeling but would be useful on the heavier gear more. That being said perhaps thats just not how CB Sees the army.
     
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  5. colbrook

    colbrook Black Fryer

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    Bear in mind in the heavier Symbionts it's still reducing EXP and DA to normal ammo, so you can risk that Missile Launcher or Panzerfaust ARO and still be at full stats.
     
  6. perseus

    perseus Angry Clown

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    yeah. on second thought this new rule is better in Neema where many serious threats she will face.

    SM-C9000 cihazımdan Tapatalk kullanılarak gönderildi
     
  7. colbrook

    colbrook Black Fryer

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    I wonder if it'll work against crits now?

    Obviously the extra ARM/BTS isn't useful but reducing an EXP crit down to a single wound with no extra rolls is something.
     
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  8. TheRedZealot

    TheRedZealot Well-Known Member
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    Total Immunity is a nice perk but its a pretty equal bonus between the 1w and 2w symbionts. EXP vs. DA will hurt for both. But Arm 7 > Arm 9 is a lot less good than Arm 1 > Arm 9.
     
  9. Tom McTrouble

    Tom McTrouble Well-Known Member

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    Just so I'm clear, is it that it changes your armor and bts value to 9, or that it adds 9 to both?
     
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  10. TheRedZealot

    TheRedZealot Well-Known Member
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    Not sure really. Going off the blog post

    I assumed that meant you become ARM/BTS9. If it was +9ARM/BTS then for a lot of units the Mates would be functionally the same right? Even a Sakiel would outright ignore small arms in Cover at that point right?

    edit: Come to think of it Obligatory is a change to the mates that I'm not sure I like. Though I suppose it might give TO troops a reason to reveal from hidden deployment.
     
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  11. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    You got counter intelligence on a model that can hide it didn't you? That alone seems worth finding its way into vanilla.

    You also got an impersonator that can be used to score a fast 5 points on certain missions that want a datatracker kill on DVTs. That's not exactly shit either.
     
  12. meikyoushisui

    meikyoushisui Competitor for Most Ignored User

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    it's still broken though

    I agree, I think obligatory is a massive step in the wrong direction. They literally did the only thing they could to make it take even less thinking than before.

    The Draal too -- Dazer + Multiterrain + Specialist for 30 points is kind of hilarious, and the Stratocloud low vis zone + saturation zone will definitely see play with the Gao-Rael.
     
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  13. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    Oh yeah, the Dazer is fucking hilarious. Guess what Haqqislam with all your new 6-2 troops? Get fucked you can only move 2" per order. You can definitely make some interesting plays with that.
     
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  14. Hiereth

    Hiereth AI Artichoke

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    Can you use the multiterrain to ignore it though, since until next week, we don't know if it's linked to any sort of terrain.
     
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  15. DeadlyOcean

    DeadlyOcean SCAF Maelstrom Crew / Professional A! Manager
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    As Tohaa player, I accept that nerf for symbiofriends.

    It derserve this. XD
     
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  16. Bohrdog

    Bohrdog Santathematics

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    I don't think it will change much, it's only going to effect max 4 orders out of 3 rounds just like it did before. Tohaa will still be just as good as ever. I never understood the whining most of the time you don't even loose orders to it because you shoot them in ARO.
     
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  17. borings

    borings Well-Known Member

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    if it is +9 to both, that is the exact change i had suggested to fix them. so i will take credit for this thank you
     
  18. borings

    borings Well-Known Member

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    i kinda wish they had CoC on the bomb version now cause i really only take the kaeltar for CoC anyways
     
  19. Robock

    Robock Well-Known Member

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    It obligatorily give ARM, BTS and Total Imm for that Order. Once you do have Total Imm for that Order, you are still allowed to not use it.

    The same way that profiles (like the metachem skill) which gives you Total Imm for the game don't force you to use it every time.

    edit: although there is nothing saying the updated Total Imm skill will keeps its Optional label ;)
     
  20. meikyoushisui

    meikyoushisui Competitor for Most Ignored User

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    uh, but the mate is still used. That's what we are talking about. Stun Ammo will still trigger your mate. You can choose to not use Total Immunity, I guess, but the mate is still expended.
     
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