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SWC Value

Discussion in 'Access Guide to the Human Sphere' started by Lieutenant, Feb 6, 2019.

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  1. Lieutenant

    Lieutenant PanOceanic Dabbler

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    To all Commanders:

    I would appreciate your input on the subject of SWC value in relation to Army Points. Ideally, this discussion will help to express the value of both Army Points (AP’s), and Special Weapon Cost (SWC’s) points, information that can aid in deciding how to properly budget when forming an efficient squad.

    When building an army, hypothetically, how many available APs would you be willing to knock off in order to add 1 SWC to your available pool? Conversely, would you be willing to forego any amount of SWC in exchange for additional APs?

    Your feedback is appreciated.

    Lieutenant, Out.
     
  2. MikeTheScrivener

    MikeTheScrivener O-12 Peace Kepper

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    I usually don't drop below 5.5 SWC, or 295 pts. I don't weigh SWC over points or vice versa, it all depends on the army and mission. But, I usually fill my SWC before I do points when list building
     
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  3. krossaks

    krossaks Well-Known Member

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    The realation is one SWC point for 50 APs, if you play a 300 point game you get 6 and in a 200 point one 4
     
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  4. Wyrmnax

    Wyrmnax Well-Known Member

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    Depends a *lot* on the mission. And on the faction.

    Some missions require specialized weaponry.

    Some missions more different specialists are more useful than swc spent in weaponry.

    Also, some factions tend to have plenty of SWC leftover as their options are either point-heavy or SWC light in general. Some factions have costly SWC options.

    Examples - In nomads it is common to not run out of swc because you have a *lot* of good stuff that does not cost - or cost very little - swc. So you tend to have leftover simply because you ran out of points too quickly.

    In ALEPH, your good swc options are almost all SWC heavy. So you tend to have SWC for 3 or 4 units only, and then have to make do with swc-less options.

    In Haqqislam, you have a very large amount of good options that cost very little SWC. So you tend to have a lot of small SWC cost things on the table, with very few things that have a heavy SWC cost.
     
  5. Lieutenant

    Lieutenant PanOceanic Dabbler

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    Very interesting. Any opinion on PanO when it comes to their SWC vs. army point usage?
     
  6. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    In general, SWC is a limit and a suggestion in my opinion. It's there to keep you from loading up on goodies only, but it's only a suggestion that you do.
    Points is a bit more of a... hard suggestion... There's nearly always something to carry you within 5 points of the limit.
     
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  7. Wyrmnax

    Wyrmnax Well-Known Member

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    It is one of the few armies I do not play much with, but it tends to be SWC heavy.

    The things you want to spend swc in cost a lot of swc. There are exceptions ( Hello, bulleteer), but the things you generally want to spend swc in are going to cost a lot of swc ( Nisses, Swiss guards, TAGs, just to give a few examples from the top of my head)

    Although nowadays you have more good / great swc light options - Helots and Echo bravos, for example.
     
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  8. MikeTheScrivener

    MikeTheScrivener O-12 Peace Kepper

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    PanO SWC spending isn't tough, imho.

    For me, list building in relation to SWC comes down to a a couple key pieces in my army:

    A heavy hitter – usually a HI with an HMG. easy 2 SWC
    A solid ARO piece – I'm mainly a sectorial player so this means a linked MSR or Missile Launcher. We don't have the cheaper sniper rifles or other low SWC options unfortunately.
    A back-up attack piece – usually another HMG or spitfire on a TO/camo or AD unit. often another 1.5 SWC.

    From here You can splash in remotes and a hacker, often netting you another .5 in addition to whatever flavor of Bulleteer or TR bot you're running. Sometimes this combo can take the place of an above mentioned role.

    Varuna has opened up a ton of options for us in terms of what guns we're bringing to the table. Kamau HMG being a dirt cheap 1 SWC and the cheap ranged guns on the Echo Bravo are a godsend to helping PanO feel gunned to the teeth.
     
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  9. Ben Kenobi

    Ben Kenobi Well-Known Member

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    With Tohaa I would take the 1 SWC less 50 points plus.
    With my nomads 0.5 SWC 25 points.

    But I think it is balanced at the moment, wouldn't change anything.
     
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  10. Lieutenant

    Lieutenant PanOceanic Dabbler

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    Great feedback. Much appreciated!
     
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  11. Nenyx

    Nenyx Well-Known Member

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    With the 3 pt warcor widely available, you should never have less than 3 army pts remaining - unless you're playing limited insertion. The warcor is a steal, because flash pulse is one of the most undercosted weapon of the game.

    For SWC, it is really dependant on what you're building. Some armies have army points, 0 SWC expensive units that are totally fine (for example multi rifle Achilles), and can build really powerful lists with only 3 or 4 SWC. Others like to spend 6 or even 7 SWC (thanks to some lieutenants that can give +1 SWC to the list).
     
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  12. Wyrmnax

    Wyrmnax Well-Known Member

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    Points wise, if you have 3 or more points leftover after you finish your list AND are not playing with Limited Insertion you should always stick a warcor in the list. Warcors are fantastic little units, and even if he gets killed on the first order of the adversary, forcing your enemy to spend half a order to shoot at it was already worth its cost.
     
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  13. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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  14. the huanglong

    the huanglong Well-Known Member

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    These days I hit SWC cap first.
     
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  15. barakiel

    barakiel Echo Bravo Master Sergeant
    Warcor

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    It's very important for PanOceania to invest a certain amount of SWC in weapons. There are multiple mechanics in the game (smoke, Camouflage, White Noise, direct templates) which allow you to interact with the mission, or interact with the opponent, without engaging in a face-to-face roll or direct confrontation.

    PanO tends to have little or no access to these tools, so we critically rely on our SWC weapons to clear a path and remove opposition.
     
  16. TriggerPuller9000

    TriggerPuller9000 Poverty Orde Wingate

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    One factor that hasn't yet been discussed is Table - the value of SWC (especially SWC weapons) changes as the density of the table changes. If your sight lines are short, SWC weapons (which are typically long-ranged weapons) are a lot less useful. Play on a wide open table and you're going to see more return on your investment.
     
  17. oldGregg

    oldGregg Well-Known Member

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    Never mind. Not worth a debate.
     
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  18. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    Not sure I understand the question... do you mean 'would I be willing to spend Army points to get more SWC?' No.

    SWC, to me, is still more a scenario-based thing. The old Beachhead scenario actually gave the Defender more SWC.

    That's a very good point. Table layout matters.

    At least personally, I value having a variety of weapon range bands covered a lot more than making sure I spend all my SWC. Ariadna is actually quite telling for this, there are a lot of Ariadnan weapons that would likely cost SWC in other armies, so it was not unusual to see competitive Ariadnan armies with 4-5SWC and 300pts.

    JSA used to be like that, too, but now tends to run SWC-tight, you run out of SWC before you run out of points.
     
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  19. AdmiralJCJF

    AdmiralJCJF Heart of the Hyperpower
    Warcor

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    Mostly this,

    But it's become slightly less true thanks to Varuna. We now have a few more SWC-light and SWC-free options which you could lean into and play effectively without hitting your cap.
     
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  20. oldGregg

    oldGregg Well-Known Member

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    I retracted my statement earlier, but come on. This:
    Is wrong. I'll grant you smoke. White noise isn't available for several factions, so its irrelevant.

    PanO has access to a ton of direct templates and plenty of other indirect weapons. This includes the Heavy Grenade Launcher, which I believe is unique to the faction. Did I mention it was on a TAG?

    PanO also has visual mods galore. TO, Camo, Limited Camo, and ODD on some impressive platforms.

    Yes, it is important for PanO to spend SWC on weapons platforms, but they have some amazing ones.

    I know some PanO players feel like they don't get all the nice things, but VIRD has really put an end to that. Some great players chose to run with PanO. They shoot better than most. When it comes down to it, you have to shoot quite a bit in Infinity the Game.

    Wrong (And this isn't all of it)
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]9 [​IMG]1
    SQUALO (Armored Cav.) MULTI HMG, Heavy Grenade Launcher / AP Heavy Pistol. (2.5 | 95)
    [​IMG] CRABBOT Flash Pulse / Knife. ()
    SPEC. SERGEANT (Multispectral Visor L2) Spitfire / Pistol, Knife. (2 | 24)
    SPEC. SERGEANT (CH: TO Camouflage, Infiltration, Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 27)
    SPEC. SERGEANT (CH: TO Camouflage, Infiltration) MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (2 | 33)
    HELOT MILITIAMAN Submachine Gun, Light Rocket Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 9)
    AUXILIA (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle + AUXBOT_1 / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15)
    [​IMG] AUXBOT_1 Heavy Flamethrower / Electric Pulse. (- | 4)
    HEXA Combi Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 24)
    BROTHER KONSTANTINOS Specialist (Infiltration) Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Assault Pistol, CCW. (0 | 34)
    KAMAU (Multispectral Visor L2) MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 32)
    ZULU-COBRA (Sensor) Combi Rifle, Jammer / Assault Pistol, Knife. (0 | 29)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]10
    BAGH-MARI (Minelayer) MULTI Sniper Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 28)
    BLACK FRIAR (Albedo, Biometric Visor L1) MULTI Rifle, Nanopulser, Drop Bears / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 28)
    NISSE Combi Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 30)
    KNIGHT OF THE HOLY SEPULCHRE (Chain of Command) Breaker Combi Rifle / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 52)
    GUARDA DE ASSALTO MULTI Rifle + Heavy Flamethrower, D-Charges + AUXBOT_2 / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 49)
    [​IMG] AUXBOT_2 Light Shotgun + Eclipse Light Grenade Launcher / Electric Pulse. (- | 6)
    PATSY GARNETT Submachine Gun, Nimbus Plus Grenades, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 37)
    KNIGHT OF SANTIAGO Lieutenant (Specialist Operative) Spitfire, Nanopulser, E/M Grenades, D-Charges / Pistol, DA CCW. (1 | 43)
    KNIGHT OF SANTIAGO Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, D-Charges + 1 TinBot A (Deflector L1) / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 38)
    DRÃGAO Hyper-Rapid Magnetic Cannon, Heavy Flamethrower / . (2.5 | 94)
    [​IMG] CRABBOT Flash Pulse / Knife. ()
    UHLAN HMG, Feuerbach / . (2 | 99)
    [​IMG] CRABBOT Flash Pulse / Knife. ()

    GROUP 3[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]8
    JOTUM MULTI HMG + Heavy Flamethrower, D.E.P. / . (2 | 103)
    [​IMG] CRABBOT Flash Pulse / Knife. ()
    BULLETEER Heavy Shotgun / Electric Pulse. (0 | 17)
    PEACEMAKER Heavy Shotgun + AUXBOT_3 / Electric Pulse. (0 | 21)
    [​IMG] AUXBOT_3 Heavy Flamethrower / Electric Pulse. (- | 4)
    CROC MAN (Minelayer) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 31)
    JOAN OF ARC Lieutenant MULTI Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, DA CCW. (+1 | 50)
    SERAPH Spitfire, Nanopulser + AUXBOT_3 / EXP CCW. (2 | 82)
    [​IMG] AUXBOT_3 Heavy Flamethrower / Electric Pulse. (- | 4)
    [​IMG] AUXBOT_3 Heavy Flamethrower / Electric Pulse. (- | 4)
    REGULAR (Minelayer, Sensor) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 14)
    REGULAR Hacker (Hacking Device, FastPanda) Combi Rifle + Light Grenade Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 23)

    22.5 SWC | 1161 Points

    Open in Infinity Army
     
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