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Svarlaheima - What if? (for fun)

Discussion in 'PanOceania' started by Zelaponeepus, May 9, 2019.

  1. Zelaponeepus

    Zelaponeepus Well-Known Member

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    DISCLAIMER: I'm not a game designer and these profiles aren't in any way meant to be a prediction, spoiler, or representation of reality. I'm just an infinity player who likes Svarlaheima and wanted to have some fun imagining what a full sectorial could look like.

    With that said, here's my vision of a possible Svarlaheima sectorial:

    —New profiles—

    Einherjar
    Logistical Command TAG
    Mov: 6-4, cc: 13, PH: 13, BS: 14, WIP: 12, ARM: 5, BTS: 6, STR: 3, s: 6 AVA: 2 (1 in vanilla)
    Equipment: ECM
    Special skills: remote presence, mountain terrain

    Fireteam: duo (Einherjar + Valkyrie)

    Profiles:

    -2 smgs, smoke light grenade launcher (lieutenant)(svarlaheima only) + auxbot 1

    -2 smgs, smoke light grenade launcher (NCO)(svarlaheima only) + auxbot 1

    -2 smgs, eclipse smoke grenade launcher (lieutenant) + auxbot 1

    -k1 marksman rifle, msv 1, breaker pistol + auxbot 1

    ——


    Huscarl
    Medium infantry
    Mov: 4-2, cc: 12, PH: 12, BS: 12, WIP: 13, ARM: 3, BTS: 3, W: 1, s: 2 AVA: total (2 in vanilla)
    Equipment:
    Special skills: V: courage, mountain terrain

    Fireteam: core, wildcard


    Profiles:

    -Combi Rifle, minesweeper, number 2

    -Boarding shotgun, em grenades, d charges, engineer (svarlaheima only)

    -Boarding shotgun, assault hacking device, tinbot A

    -Combi Rifle, forward observer, sensor

    -Red fury

    -Missile launcher

    -Combi Rifle, minesweeper, number 2, chain of command

    -Combi rifle, minesweeper, number 2 (lieutenant)


    —Sectorial non-specific profiles—

    Fusiliers
    Ava: 4
    Fireteam: core

    One Nisse may join a fireteam of fusiliers.


    ——

    Order sergeants
    Ava: 2
    Special Fireteam haris: 2 order sergeants + 1 knight hospitalier


    ——

    Knight hospitalier
    Ava: 5
    Special Fireteam haris: 2 order sergeants + 1 knight hospitalier

    Fireteam: core


    ——

    Crusader brethren
    Ava: 3


    ——

    Jotum
    Ava: 2
    Fireteam: duo


    ——

    Saito togan
    Ava: 1


    ——

    Valkyrie
    Ava: 1

    Firetime: duo (Einherjar + Valkyrie)


    ——

    Fusilier Indigo Bipandra
    Ava: 1


    ——

    Konstantinos
    Ava: 1


    ——

    Nisse
    Ava: 5

    Fireteam: core, haris

    Svarlaheima only profiles:

    -Combi Rifle (killer hacking device)


    —Standard Profiles—


    ——

    Orc Troops
    Ava: 5
    Fireteam: core


    ——

    Machinist
    Ava: 1


    ——

    Trauma Doctor
    Ava: 1


    ——

    Tech Bee
    Ava: 1


    ——

    Warcor
    Ava: 1


    ——

    Pathfinder Dronbot
    Ava: 2


    ——

    Sierra Dronbot
    Ava: 2


    ——

    Clipper Dronbot
    Ava: 1


    ——

    Fugazi Dronbot
    Ava: 2


    ——

    Armbots Bulleteer
    Ava: 1


    ——

    Armbots Peacemaker
    Ava: 1


    ——

    Palbots
    Ava: 2


    ——

    Mulebots
    Ava: 2

    ----------
    A little context for a few of my ideas:

    I really liked seeing Saito show up in the lists that CB put out. I thought the idea of allowing Svarlaheima to have access to very limited and rather expensive smoke was a neat way of making the sectorial not just feel like another standard variety of Pano.

    I also felt that if a PanO specific unit was going to break the mold, it should be extremely expensive and limit the options around it. A TAG made the most sense since PanO is the "TAG faction." The Einherjar draws from norse mythology... wikipedia describes it as such: In Norse mythology, the einherjar (Old Norse literally "those who fight alone") are those who have died in battle and are brought to Valhalla by valkyries.

    Vanilla PanO already has access to eclipse smoke on an elite profile, adding one more doesn't seem like it will break anything, especially since this unit will probably cost quite a lot.

    The k1 marksman rifle profile is intended to be a TAG hunter that loses its potency against light targets. The MSV 1 allows it to threaten an Avatar, without benefitting from smoke tricks (that's for the Nisse only).

    Huscarls are support units. Again, from wikipedia: In medieval Scandinavia, husmän (Old Norse: húskarlar, singular húskarl; also anglicised as housecarl huscarl (Old English form) and sometimes spelled huscarle or houscarl) were either non-servile manservants or household troops in personal service of someone, equivalent to a bodyguard to Scandinavian lords and kings.

    Some of the traditional PanO troops don't have high AVA, but the presence of Huscarl wildcards and both Bipandra and Konstantinos allows for some variety in composition. Fusilier cores have a number of possible builds that aren't similar to other sectorials (with a Nisse and some Huscarls, for example).

    The order sergeants can serve as a Hospitalier Knights retinue in a special Haris option, but they're also the sectorials only option for infiltrating specialists. Their limited AVA is meant to make them an important decision point in list building.

    Anyways, I thought I'd share this since I wrote it all out and spent the evening thinking about it. Feel free to comment if you'd like, but like I said; I'm aware of the fact that I'm not a professional game designer and that there are probably large holes that I haven't seen. I also haven't play tested any of this and have no idea how to go about creating points costs for the new units.
     
  2. Doa

    Doa Well-Known Member

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    I like the idea but I don't understand why new unit have a lower bs than same type of pano troops :D
     
  3. barakiel

    barakiel Echo Bravo Master Sergeant
    Warcor

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    I really like the listed units and general feel of the Sectorial. I think Huscarls could do with something unique... A niche, either in firepower or special rules, that differentiates them from existing units. I think this is especially true if they're going to be Wildcard with 4-2. 4-2 is a disadvantage compared to all units they're likely to join, which means they need a distinct advantage to incentivize taking them. I think N2 and Sensor are both great, and I think you could probably push it a bit further also.

    If it were me, I'd consider slashing their cost, shifting them to light infantry, and giving them Climbing Plus.

    For general profile/loadouts, I think you could go a few different ways. Thinking again about the utility of Wildcard, I think that Minelayer, NCO and Marksman Rifles are also very good fits.

    Nisse are challenging, because they already combine two good gunfighting skills: MSV2 and Mimetism. So for the Huscarl to shine, it needs to really pack a lot of order efficiency, utility, support, etc. to help make it appealing.
     
  4. Judge Dredd

    Judge Dredd Well-Known Member

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    I think perhaps some ambush camo and their own regular camo infiltrator wouldn't go awry for Sval.
     
    xammy likes this.
  5. kanluwen

    kanluwen Well-Known Member

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    Better what if:

    Knights don't matter and shouldn't be counted. They've pissed off into their own NA2, never to bother good PanO players again since they are and always will be useless trash. You want Knights? Go play 40k.
    Also, Bipandra takes a round to the Cube. Too bad, so sad. Gets replaced with a Dire Foe that's actually useful.

    With that out of the way, Einherjar were something that I've concepted in the past. I looked at them as a Medium Infantry with some "fight on despite being wounded" ideas. There was also the Draugr, a kind of 'terror trooper' with TO Camo. Had also concepted Valkyries as a thing that is remarkably similar to the Hakims we ended up seeing. Had also done a "Troll" unit of S5 Heavy Infantry that was G: Sync'd with an Auxbot.

    Anyways, TLDR version? Maybe we should just make Knights and Order Sergeants the order of the day! Just make PanO a whole Knight faction!

    Knights are a waste of design space, SKUs, and shelf space. Delete the whole frigging lot of them and do something actually creative.
     
    #5 kanluwen, May 10, 2019
    Last edited: May 10, 2019
    Solar likes this.
  6. kanluwen

    kanluwen Well-Known Member

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    Screw that. If USARF didn't get a single Marksman Rifle, Svalarheima shouldn't see a single one. But of course they will because they're the new hotness and despite the background making it clear that USARF(being an Ariadnan faction) should have access to them...they don't, because god help you if you go and have to backdate material!
    Or you could just make them solo pieces rather than yet another Wildcard for yet another mixed link.
     
  7. xammy

    xammy Keeper of Random Facts and Strong Opinions

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    @kanluwen I'm sensing that there is some past issues coming through.
     
  8. meikyoushisui

    meikyoushisui Competitor for Most Ignored User

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    PanO already has a Marksman rifle (on the locust) and a couple of Shock MMRs (Helot and Zulu Cobra.) There are also a lot of MMR varieties in NA2 factions that they are selling weapons to...

    USARF is probably next for a revisit tbh, the only other faction that is still in the old Fireteam paradigm is Bakunin and I highly suspect Bakunin is getting mrrfed within the next year.

    We both know Knights aren't going anywhere, the sculpts are a huge draw for people into the game. I also disagree that they'll always be trash, maybe someday CB will figure out that giant CC taxes for unusable CC is a bad idea and fix MO.
     
    Judge Dredd and toadchild like this.
  9. kanluwen

    kanluwen Well-Known Member

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    The reason that I say Knights are trash is because they're a millstone around PanO's neck.

    We're constantly held back because of that nonsense. It needs to be put into NA2, ASAP.
     
  10. Judge Dredd

    Judge Dredd Well-Known Member

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    I think you have that completely backwards. PanO knights are held back by arbitrary stupid design locked onto PanO and how the devs think it works.

    My last two games with Haqq has resulted in me getting into CC in situations where it was tactically advantageous. The last time I got into CC with my knights, I was goofing around with Teutons against a new player. I've only used their CC in one serious situation, against a blind TAG to wreck it fast with 4 knights on it. The thing is, I didnt even use Haqq melee specialists in those situations. I used one of the twins to jam up a model and incidentally kill it. The other was two mutts and a ghulam knifing a fractaa. Both of these situations were possible because of smoke and they allowed me to deal with some bad situations involving boarding shotguns getting too close for comfort.
     
  11. Ayadan

    Ayadan Knight of the TAG Order

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    That's something I find funny because those CC skills and stats saved me a countless number of time while their lack was something I felt when playing secular PanO HIs. CC 20 on the Seraph is enough to beat in CC a good amount of WB while being challenging for the others. Yes, there are about a handful number of them who will still go there to try their chance with good odds for dealing damage but I think that it's ok considering the cost of the TAG.
    CC on knights gives me the assurance that I can pick Predator and success to complete it with good odds for reaching the bonus objective point.
    CC is also the assurance I can kill freaking troops as hard to kill through BS attack as Ryuken-9, Proxy Mk2 and Swiss Guard at short range. And since infiltrators are rarely good CC fighters, they are effective to kill them quickly. Yes, you'll shoot most of the time but 2W + CC gives you the opportunity to always advance while shooting instead of shooting while dumbly idling there for three orders.
    And I'm only talking about knights in solo, ie when I play them in Vanilla.
     
    Lesh', BarbeChenue and Stiopa like this.
  12. Hexa

    Hexa TAG pilot

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    Something I'd like to see is fusiliers getting a profile with marksman rifle and MSV1 for ~14-18pts. With a lieutenant option with advanced command, available in mixed PanO at 0.5 SWC.
     
    AdmiralJCJF likes this.