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Suppressive Fire: Who, What, Where, When, and Why?

Discussion in 'Access Guide to the Human Sphere' started by MikeTheScrivener, May 19, 2019.

  1. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    The trouble is your implying that the model that you put on Suppression just drops from the Fireteam but the Fireteam still exists (which is what would happen in your Rui Shi example).

    That's not how it works with Suppression Fire.

    (If it's possible at all)
    The Trooper that you want to be on Suppression MUST be the Team Leader and ONLY the Team Leader will enter the Suppression Fire state. This will:
    A. Activate the entire Fireteam (triggering AROs)
    B. Cancel the Fireteam during the conclusion of the Order

    It's therefore better to first cancel the Fireteam and then declare Suppression Fire.
     
    #41 inane.imp, May 30, 2019
    Last edited: May 30, 2019
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  2. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    I'm going with the wiki, it says nothing about breaking the fireteam. Just that those that go into suppression is not longer in the team.

    I also meant, when I said they do different things, that 3 out of 5 walk away while 2 others sit there. Sorry for confusion.

    Fireteam and Suppressive Fire State
    A trooper stops being part of a Fireteam if he enters the Suppressive Fire state.

    Moreover, a trooper's Suppressive Fire state is cancelled when joining a Fireteam.
     
  3. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    The trouble is you're just reading the Fireteam and Suppression Fire rules. You also need to read the Order Expenditure Sequence rules, Fireteams in the Active Turn and Suppression Fire rules.

    Read together, this is how they interact:


     
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  4. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    Um well of course it's going to break if you are having the team leader go into suppression! I never said the leader doing it.

    This is how you do it.

    Example 1
    A team of five has three men including the leader walk one way, two of them walk the opposite. And the end of the order the two that are too far away from the leader drop out. Next order you can put one into Suppression or two with a coordinated order.

    Example 2
    A team of five walk up to cover (move-move). Next order, using a coordinated order for 2-4 of the team go into suppression and automatically are dropped from the team. Broken if you include the team leader or do 4 out of 5.

    You also a can't use the teams order to do a coordinated order. If you want all of them to go into suppression, you must break the link first, then you can use a coordinated order to do suppression. Or everyone BUT the team leader does it without needing to break first.
     
  5. Papa Bey

    Papa Bey Clueless Wonder. Still.

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    Didn't the FAQ explicitly disallow fire team members from participating in a coordinated order?
     
  6. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    That is correct. They can't. The would drop from the link if they do. You can't maintain a link and do a coordinated order.

    My examples show them guys either leaving the link before hand or dropping from the link because they using a coordinate order to Suppress.
     
    #46 Space Ranger, May 31, 2019
    Last edited: May 31, 2019
  7. Papa Bey

    Papa Bey Clueless Wonder. Still.

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    Er. No. I meant ineligible by can't be chosen, not as in picked and dropped.

    Wiki entry.

    Q: Can a Fireteam be part of a Coordinated Order?
    A: No. Fireteam members cannot take part in a Coordinated Order, so you would need to cancel the Fireteam or create a new Fireteam without those troopers.
     
  8. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    Example 1 still stands. 2 is in question then. There's other ways for members of a team to leave it without canceling it.
     
  9. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    Sure, anything that breaks Fireteam integrity: this will involve activating the Fireteam or spending a Command Token.

    Also you weren't only talking about example 1.

    These are the things we've been saying you can't do.

    TL;DR if a trooper is a member of a Fireteam you can't put them into Suppression Fire without breaking the Fireteam. Alternatively, you can first force them to fail Fireteam integrity and stop being a member of a Fireteam.
     
  10. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    Ok then. I've just been going with the rules I've seen. Why would they have the below rule, if you must cancel it in the first place? I think we have contradictory rules, again. They rule below wouldn't exist because he wouldn't be in a fireteam in the first place.

    Fireteam and Suppressive Fire State
    A trooper stops being part of a Fireteam if he enters the Suppressive Fire state.

    Moreover, a trooper's Suppressive Fire state is cancelled when joining a Fireteam.
     
  11. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    I don't find it contradictory, only kind of needlessly complicated to clear up all interactions.
     
  12. tox

    tox SorriBarai
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    Your example 2 is:
    5 men Fireteam complete an Order.
    The Fireteam is voluntarily cancelled, as per Cancellation clauses (The Fireteam can be cancelled voluntarily by the player, with no expenditure of Orders or Command Tokens.)
    2-4 members are put it SupFire via Coordinated Order
     
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  13. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    It's not bad but sucks you need to re-form the link with any that can be in it.
     
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  14. Papa Bey

    Papa Bey Clueless Wonder. Still.

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    Because you could give an order to the team and the leader drops out for entering Suppression Fire, which also breaks the team.

    You just can't do it via a coordinated order.
     
  15. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    You can't use a coordinated order on a link team anyway. So I still don't get it. The order that's used to coordinate cannot be used on the Fireteam.
     
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  16. tox

    tox SorriBarai
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    Translating Papa Bey...

    You have a Fireteam
    You spend an order, select your Team Leader, declare Suppressive Fire
    The TL (only him) enter SupFire, he drops out of Fireteam. As the leader is kicked out, the FT is broken.
     
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  17. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    Are we not reaching the same thing?

    Either the link leader goes into suppression and breaks the team.
    Or
    Break the team and that same guy goes into suppression.

    Either way, the team is broken and a guy goes into suppression fire.

    What was the difficult thing was doing a Coordinated order. You can’t use a Coordinated order on anyone in a link team, so the team needs to break or some guys be “left behind” for that to happen.

    Sorry this has gone beyond the original post!
     
  18. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    Here's my issue on this:

    Even if you declared Suppressive Fire with the entire fireteam, ONLY the current Link Leader would enter the state, kicking the TL out of the link, which would then break the link.

    So you can't have Fireteam Members aside from the TL put into Suppressive Fire via a Fireteam order.
     
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  19. tox

    tox SorriBarai
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    Yeah, that's it. I think it is a design / balancing choice. 5 models in Suppressive Fire with a single order would have been a bit too strong of an effect...
     
  20. daboarder

    daboarder Force One Commander
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    thats thinking small.

    10 models in 2 orders and a single command token