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Suppressive Fire: Who, What, Where, When, and Why?

Discussion in 'Access Guide to the Human Sphere' started by MikeTheScrivener, May 19, 2019.

  1. MikeTheScrivener

    MikeTheScrivener Kamau Amphibious Intervention Operative

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    I can't say I've seen this topic discussed at a greater length than just as a side comment.
    I realize so much of this is situationally dependent but:

    How often do you use suppressive fire? once a game? multiple times? perhaps you only use it as an act of desperation or never at all.

    I can only speak for myself here but I'll usually only use suppressive if it's accompanied by a command token and a coordinated order. "Act of desperation" is one way I look at it.

    Do you have a favorite unit to drop into suppressive? maybe you take a specific unit like a Lasiq to suppress at some point in the game?

    We all know some units are better than others in suppressive. Generally something with negative modifiers without a marker state are good choices. My usual opponent has been taking a grief operator in onyx and dropping it into suppressive early game. It can be a hassle to deal with without a doubt.

    Do you feel like suppressive is underpowered, or over powered?

    I feel as though it can be improved. imho, it generally isn't worth the long skill to do. maybe if it was a short skill it would a little more viable or worth while.

    I'm curious to hear everyone else's thoughts on the matter. perhaps some fun anecdotal evidence on why suppressive is tOtalLy BusTED!
     
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  2. TriggerPuller9000

    TriggerPuller9000 Poverty Orde Wingate

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    I do it pretty frequently - the right unit in the right place on suppression can be a pain to deal with. For example, last game w/ QK vs. Nomads...

    Dropped in a Bashi, used his holoechos to clear 2 Crazy Koalas. Dropped him into suppression since he was pretty far up-field in order to deter a Taskmaster (AP ammo is actually dangerous to them).

    Djanbazan HMG ran up and posted in the midfield on suppression to pin two Morlocks in opponent's DZ. He ended up dropping both Morlocks, and then a Feuerbach bot who rolled out to try to clear him.


    With vanilla factions, when I suppress it's usually with a command token since there are more solo pieces. In sectorials, I'll usually just drop individual guys onto suppression.
     
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  3. Quickit

    Quickit Active Member

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    I use it on a regular basis. I mainly play JSA, and I'll almost always spend my last order of the first (and sometimes second) turn on a coordinated Suppression with my Ryuken, Rui Shi or Lu Duan, Shikami with combi, Oni with SMG (if revealed), etc. Except for the REM's, it tend to be models with BS modifiers already on them. It gives them a strong -9 or -12 to hit, and makes them much more dangerous than just a single B1 ARO. I'm surprised I don't see it more...
     
  4. Hachiman Taro

    Hachiman Taro Well-Known Member

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    It's one of those things that is great in the right spot but a waste of an order in the wrong spot.

    A good spot is 11"-24" away from where a bunch of warband troopers will end up with their impetuous move. Or overlooking an objective your opponent has to travel to get to when they dont have an easily accessible way to engage you from beyond 24". You can really snooker someone with those at times.

    The wrong place would be overlooking a camo marker close enough to walk by you, or in potential view of a long range weapon from beyond 24"
     
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  5. meikyoushisui

    meikyoushisui Competitor for Most Ignored User

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    I think Suppressive would be used a lot more if it could be activated via a Command Token the way an EVO lets you activate some GADGET programs before the game begins.

    Suppressive does a few things, IMO:

    1) If you're an army with weak reactive capability, suppressive lets you shore up your weakness a bit. JSA is a great example of this -- the army's entire reactive turn is like... the threat of an Oniwaban combined with Ryukens in the midfield. It isn't going to put a big shooting ARO up unless it has a tactically questionable DoTanko link. Throwing the Ryukens into Suppressive improves their survivability as well, since they don't take the range penalty outside of 16 inches.

    2) Coordinated Suppressive is the best way to hold onto objectives during the last turn. Each order you spend on Suppressive is at least one short skill your opponent spends shooting instead of moving because while some units can take an unopposed shot with B1, only a few objective grabbers can risk it with B3.

    3) Suppressive improves survivability of tanky pieces because it grants them a pseudo-visual mod. Because of how the game math works, in the reactive turn, giving you and your opponent a -3 is better than if neither of you had mods, because it reduces the chances of success by both players -- which is still more ideal than getting killed in ARO.

    I will say I use it much more in some armies than others. In JSA I probably used it in more than half of my games, in ASA I use it sparingly (Regulars are excellent line troops, so occasionally marching a regular link halfway up the table and dropping them all into suppressive is a way to control the table), and I don't think I ever used it during my 2 month stint in ISS.
     
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  6. Wolf

    Wolf https://watchwolf.net

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    Yes, I find Suppressive Fire's a useful option to camp an objective, or prevent easy ingress of enemy troops if I have a multi-wound, high ARM unit in the right place at the right time.

    As @Hachiman Taro says, it's a lot about ensuring you can use SP's short 60cm/24" range and also deny your opponent's better range bands, and if that situation eventuates, it seems pretty good Order value.

    I'm not sure about using single wound or lightly armoured models, but I've previously used Father Knights in Pan O; Sogarat Tempests with Morats, and Achilles with ALEPH Steel Phalanx is currently proving a worthwhile option at the end of the first or second turns.

    [​IMG]1
    ACHILLES Lieutenant Spitfire, Nanopulser / Pistol, EXP CC Weapon. (2.5 | 75)
    2.5 SWC | 75 Points
    Open in Infinity Army

    Opponents have to manage -9 to hit ((-6 for ODD) + (-3 for Sup Fire) and ARM 6; even Hackers have to manage BTS 6, but anything that wants to die gloriously like Tom Cruise in 'Taps' should be good, really! :smile:

     
    #6 Wolf, May 19, 2019
    Last edited: May 20, 2019
  7. ObviousGray

    ObviousGray Frenzied Mushroom
    Warcor

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    From my view SF skyrockets one's aggro and in circumstances, one's survival chances during ARO turn. Maybe a bit too much for a long skill, perhaps.
    • Who - I do like using general troops suppressing some key part. They become a true nuisance when covering a major position, or the way to your elite unit. Later the game, or if you can run a lot of multi-wounds (like YJ), throwing some HI into suppression gives serious order soak upon opponent.
    • What - Best weapon would be SMG, one reason why that's called OP - not for me, frankly, cause they do have range issues. Still, a combi rifle SF mode is troublesome too. You shoot 3-shots in your reactive turn, and thats the main meal.
    • Where - Covering crucial consoles or HVTs, corner suppression not over 24'. Just to remember if you're playing 1-wounders as an SF anchor, beware the template suicide squad.
    • When - The Later, the better. Early games tend to have keys to break suppression off - Hacking, Grenades, Templates, Snipers, Camos.. - and this make me hesitate declaring SF on early turns most of the time. After turn 1 or 2, both sides will be severely damaged by opponent, which led lack of tools to remove SF units. From then, they become something really annoying.
    • Why - 3 shots on ARO turn. It's sometimes better than linked AROs!
    Of course, later games offer lack of orders. But in such situation, I prefer using support group's engineer/doctor or order monkey to run SF mode. It got me so much games indeed.

    (And Wu Ming SMGCR is borderline OP due to this skill :P)
     
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  8. Wolf

    Wolf https://watchwolf.net

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    Maybe we can persuade Corvus Belli to do a Heavy Machine Gun miniature with a face like Tom Cruise, like they did Achilles with Brad Pitt's features. Ideally, bare-chested, and standing in the "It's beautiful, man!" pose. They might struggle to make sense of it all fluff-wise, but as a sponge to the opponent's Order Pool they couldn't get better!
     
    #8 Wolf, May 19, 2019
    Last edited: May 20, 2019
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  9. ChoTimberwolf

    ChoTimberwolf Artichoken Friend

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    In my opinion suppressive fire is pretty damn strong. I play Tohaa so link teams everythere but a clipsos in suppressive fire covering an objective can't be ignored and needs some orders to take out, with burst 3 and enemy -12 (-6 TO, -3 Cover -3 SuppFire) means you got a good chance surviving a few orders.
    Or Kaauris coord order supp fire, cheap units but can defend quite well this way....if I got 4 solo pieces in my list I nearly always use the last order for a coord SuppFire
    I don't think it needs a buff, its pretty fine as it is but if someone wants to change it it should be a nerf not a buff.
     
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  10. chromedog

    chromedog Less than significant minion

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    It would be an S1 miniature, though. :D :D :D
     
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  11. daszul

    daszul Well-Known Member

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    Are you nuts? Put him in cover, damnit! :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:
    BS -12 and ARM 9 sounds much better to me!
     
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  12. Nenyx

    Nenyx Well-Known Member

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    Except he probably already killed something and be impetuous. Well, frenzy only triggers at the start of the owner's turn, so maybe on turn 1 you can enjoy the -12, but after that, you'll only have -9
     
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  13. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    If I'm actively planning on using Suppression, my criteria in order are Price, Visual Modifiers, Durability, Weapon.

    ISS/YJ
    I like Miranda Ascroft. Her ODD relatively low price and being a specialist make her perfect.
    The Dakini is great for it due to Mimetisim, can be buffed, and cheap!
    Kanren is awesome when on the next turn he has his holos show up again! Not only need to deal with suppression but also need to figure out which one to shoot at!
    Lu Duan for the same on Holo but can also be buffed and has better gun.
    I'm sure the Mowang is good but haven't tried him yet

    Dahshat
    As said above, Lu Duan, Miranda. But my favorite I think is the 9pt mimetisim LIberto! He hits all of my criteria, Cheap, Vis-Mods, Dogged, Weapon (SMG) but also Forward Deploy level 2.
    Bashi Bozuk for the same as the Kanren/ Lu Duan above but they are also cheap and can get into great range faster.
    Other good one is Hunzakut.

    Ikari
    Bashi as well.
    The new rules for Total Immunity have made Karakuri fantastic! If you need a tough specialist on objective, they are your robot! Also, I never do less than the Mk12. Not cheap but worth it.

    Haqqislam
    People forget about the Halqa because he's only available to Vanilla. They start up to middle of the board with Rifle+Lt. Shotguns! They are pretty cheap and they can just hold down an area for a while. Even better, FO Halqa! "oh too far for my Suppression?" ok, Flash Pulse!
    Other good ones are Farzans, Hunzakut, Lasiq, Daylami

    Druze
    Druze! Duh. When you don't have them in a link team that is. with the combo of X-Visor and Fatality, they are extremely dangerous to deal with in Suppression. The problem is that they are not cheap.

    Shasvastii/Combined
    Cheap is relative in Combined, but the Combi & Spitfire Noctifer is great for TO Camo and hard to get rid of due to Dogged.
    Other good ones, Zerat, Rodok, Shrouded, Jayth Cuthroats.
     
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  14. MikeTheScrivener

    MikeTheScrivener Kamau Amphibious Intervention Operative

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    I'm surprised so many here are willing to put main SWC pieces into suppression – generally that's something I try to hide on my opponent's turn. Leaving these guys in suppression is just inviting your opponent to pick them apart.

    I'm also surprised no one has mentioned Holo2 tricks with suppression! The few times I use the KotHP I almost always do that.
     
  15. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    I hardly ever do it with something like an HMG, but i may do it with a Spitfire. Like i said, my criteria starts with price. Including SWC. Though the Liberto is 1 SWC, he causes enough trouble to make him worth it. But even the 8pt one with no mimetisim is fantastic.

    I love the Holo2 trick with bashi and Lu Duan. Highly recommend it if you can do it.
     
  16. barakiel

    barakiel Echo Bravo Master Sergeant
    Warcor

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    There are two times I put something in Suppressive:

    • If I don't care if it lives or dies. This is most common when it's the last turn of a game, or if it's a unit that's so far up the field that there's no real chance of retreating or hiding with it (commonly AD units, or units that made a long run to score an objective and their job is done.)
    • If the unit is committed to holding an area, and needs to force an order drain. Usually this will be cheap troops covering a Datatracker in Total Cover, or backline troops when I expect AD.
    If you want an individual unit to stay alive though, Total Cover and support from other units is always going to be your best bet. Similarly, I rely a lot more on marker state or link bonuses than I do on Suppressive. Challenging opponents with Suppressive Fire's rarely results in great outcomes, so you have to be okay with losing the Suppressive Fire unit.

    Generally though, I don't actually use it that often. As mentioned, for keeping units alive, I typically rely on marker state or link bonuses. Most of my active defense takes the form of long-range AROs, mines, Jammer, and the occasional Total Reaction / Neurocinetic choice. That doesn't actually leave much room for Suppressive Fire.
     
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  17. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    It's a good insurance policy, but it depends on how good you are at knowing when to pull back. I typically do the general Wargaming thing where I leave my units in the position I want them to shoot from and I have to practice that habit away. But spending an order and a CT on putting 4 units into Suppression and you might as well put your main SWC piece in suppression as well, even if it's hiding.
     
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  18. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    I think of it this way too. He's already a target, so might as well give him a better burst and -3 to be hit!
     
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  19. Brother Smoke

    Brother Smoke Contractor for the Tartary Army Korps

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    In territory missions when I get the first turn i will often end it with coordinated orders involving my infiltrators
    -Drop a mine
    -Suppressive Fire
     
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  20. Solar

    Solar Well-Known Member

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    I tend to think that it's something I rarely would use in isolation but think is very effective as a layer of defence. Up close you want your deployables, warbands and so on. Disposable troops. At the back you want powerful long ranged AROs. In the middle you have suppression fire troops, ideally with BS mods like mimetism or whatever, who force your opponent to go through another line to get to objectives etc. Suppresion fire by itself is not so great, but when to get to an objective your opponent needs to get past a mine, a Morlock, a suppression fire Zero and a Moira MSR it's a lot harder for them!
     
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