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Super-Jump and CC interaction

Discussion in 'Rules' started by meikyoushisui, Aug 31, 2018.

  1. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    TBH I've been working off memory, so it doesn't surprise me that much.
     
  2. Gero

    Gero Well-Known Member

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    My 2 cents.

    Engaged:

    This state activates when the trooper is in base contact with an enemy trooper.

    Effects.
    • Troopers in Engaged state are considered to be in Close Combat (CC).
    • For this reason, they can only declare CC Attack, Coup de Grâce, Dodge and those Skills which specify that they can be used in CC Combat or in the Engaged state, as Reset.
    • Troopers in the Engaged state cannot draw LoF outside their Close Combat.
    • Troopers in the Engaged state can only use those weapons with the CC Trait.
    • When declaring a BS Attack against a trooper in Engaged state, then the rule BS Attacks into Close Combat must be applied.
    • Template Weapons that affect a trooper in Engaged state affect all troopers in that Close Combat, even if some of them are not in direct contact with the Template.

    Cancellation.
    • This state is cancelled when the trooper ceases to be in base contact with any enemy troopers.
    • The Engaged state can be cancelled when all the adversaries are in a Null or Immobilized state. The remaining trooper can then declare Move (but following the structure of the Order) to separate from the adversary and to cancel the Engaged state.
    • If the adversary passes to Unconscious state (with an Unconscious or a Spawn-Embryo Marker), then the trooper could also declare a Coup de Grâce in any following Order to cancel the Engaged state.
    • A trooper can also cancel the Engaged state by succeeding in a Dodge Roll, whether it's a Normal or Face to Face Roll.
    So following the common movement rules, the Umbra or Shikami stop mid-air when they reach B2B (which doesn't necessarily mean at the same height like the FAQ where two troops are considered in B2B because there silhouettes are in contact), and then it falls, I'm unsure how the fall part would be handled, but yes for the CC attack skill...

    CC ATTACK

    Requirements
    • The user must be in base to base contact with an enemy.
    EFFECTS
    • The user employs his CC Attribute to fight in Close Combat (CC).
    • By declaring a CC Attack, troopers automatically draw their CC Weapons. If they have more than one CC Weapon in their profile, they can choose which ones to use. When declaring a CC Attack players can only use those weapons with the CC Trait.
    • If the attacker has more than one target and a Burst value higher than 1, he must distribute his attacks as part of the CC Attack declaration.
    The engaged state is not required to declare the CC attack, but since the engaged state is immediately activated when the Umbra or Shikami is in B2B, he would stop his movement and fall, however it seems like it is possible that you can declare the CC attack in midair because according to the first bullet of the cancellation "it ceases to be in base contact with any of his enemies", I believe the state is both activated and canceled thus it's effects are not applied for all scenarios because it's cancellation occurs when the troop must fall due to his movement being cut by entering B2B, which would allow both troopers to declare CC attack, BS, Attack, Dodge, Engage (for the reactive troooper...LOL), or any other ability that is allowed to occur in a normal scenario.

    So yes, its seems clear that you must take the fall, and then be able to declare the skill you wish to use, since you technically entered and exited the Engaged state due to FALLING for the resolution of all at once, it's effects are not applied for every declaration but it is for some, since the declaration of attacks is always made at the most favorable moment for whom declares the attack, so if a reactive trooper declared a BS attack and due to LOF he could see the umbra or shikami at the start of the jump before B2B ocurred he must not apply the fire into CC rules, however lets assume that another reactive trooper only got LOF of the shikami or umbra when it was in B2B with the troop and declares a BS attack, he would have to apply the rule of CC into close combat....

    In fact the shikami or umbra may wish to shoot at all different reactive troopers because it was both in condition of engaged and non engaged due to the fall.

    EDIT- CLARITY

    TL;DR: Yes the umbra can as Mahtamori pointed out, jump touch B2B with the enemy trooper, fall, and then declare his second short skill, since he was engaged for the simultaneouty of resolution, the engaged state was also cancelled by falling, and thus he can DECLARE CC ATTACK, BS ATTACK, HACKING or any other skill that is available to him during his order, as I pointed out in the second pararaph the interactions may differ depending on which reactive trooper and where LOF could be traced, meaning you can get some shots into CC while other shots would not be affected as IJW pointed out, the best point for attack is decided in the resolution, and the general movement rules say that the trooper ALWAYS finishes his route even if this one is interrupted by falling.
     
    #22 Gero, Sep 4, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2018
  3. ev0k

    ev0k Well-Known Member

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    I think Engaged is a consequence of being in B2B contact, not a condition. For example, if you come in B2B contact with a ennemy to make CC attack and "overkill" him (i.e. sending him to dead state at the end of the resolution), you are not Engaged as his miniature is removed from the table. thus it seems perfectly legit to be able to perform a CC attack during the jump and not being Engaged after the resolution.
     
    meikyoushisui likes this.