1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Stranger things of N4

Discussion in 'Haqqislam' started by Green, Sep 25, 2020.

?

Is this mistake, joke or grim reality we cursed to live?

  1. mistake

    15 vote(s)
    53.6%
  2. joke

    1 vote(s)
    3.6%
  3. grim reality

    12 vote(s)
    42.9%
  1. QueensGambit

    QueensGambit SecUnit

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2019
    Messages:
    1,650
    Likes Received:
    2,302
    I think Haqq is in a fantastic place, and in my four games of N4 so far, I've found that the 15-order cap improved my enjoyment of the game. Also I had at least four irregulars in every list.

    But I suppose the small minority who don't like the cap will keep dooming and glooming despite all the evidence to the contrary.
     
    marskals, Savnock, Teleute and 4 others like this.
  2. RobertShepherd

    RobertShepherd Antipodean midwit

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2018
    Messages:
    1,961
    Likes Received:
    3,941
    I honestly think N4 Haqq would be broken without the 15 model cap. Daylami are soft-capped by SWC, but Bikers aren't. The lists I would make do not bear thinking about.

    Also someone above mentioned using the Ayyar for mine clearing - yes, this is an excellent use of them, especially in HB where you don't have a 6pt biker to blitz 14" in glory. It's what's keeping the Ayyar dream alive for me, very tentatively.
     
    Teleute, ijw and QueensGambit like this.
  3. RobertShepherd

    RobertShepherd Antipodean midwit

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2018
    Messages:
    1,961
    Likes Received:
    3,941
    ...I thought about it, Ray.

    Tactical window.png

    I'm going to say it's for the best we don't have unlimited unit slots here.
     
    BingBong, Savnock, Apollon and 2 others like this.
  4. QueensGambit

    QueensGambit SecUnit

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2019
    Messages:
    1,650
    Likes Received:
    2,302
    Tried out the Ayyar today. Of course my opponent's Madtraps wound up on the other side of the board from him, and he didn't otherwise use his holoechoes. He pretended to be a Govad HMG, which induced a Su-Jian to deploy maybe 2 inches further back than it otherwise would have. On turn 3 he grabbed a supply box just so as to feel useful, but the nearby Farzan could just as easily have gotten it.

    He did do two wounds to the Su-Jian with his panzerfaust in ARO. So, I guess he performed about on par with a Daylami?

    I want to like him. I do! Gonna keep trying.
     
    Urobros, Xagul82, HardDisk and 2 others like this.
  5. Space Ghost

    Space Ghost Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    68
    Likes Received:
    106
    @QueensGambit : FWIW and IMO, masking your PF Ayyar as a Govad HMG might not have been the way to go, since the HMG is pretty hard hitting just like the PF and has similar range bands. In N3 I'd sometimes mask the SMR Ayyar as something with a BSG, to try to lure my opponent into a position where he could be ambushed by a full burst Active Turn -6 Surprise Shot at range. Now that the Ayyar sniper can also Surprise Attack, masking him as a schmo Ghulam LT hiding prone on a rooftop is also something I'd consider. Not gonna pretend this always works, but it can be quite satisfying (and really jack up your opponent's plans) when it does. Good luck!
     
    ijw likes this.
  6. SpectralOwl

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2018
    Messages:
    1,515
    Likes Received:
    2,240
    Not a Haqq player, but the obvious play for me would be to disguise an Ayyar as a screen of E/Marat Mutts when going second. Not as good for board control, but most people really don't want to Rambo into E/Marats, and will likely play carefully around them. It also helps that most Haqq players probably own enough Mutts to make such a deployment without resorting to proxies- and you could have actual Mutts in there as well! There's also the tried and true option of putting down 4 Saladins, as Holoprojectors can make the LT shell game a lot easier under Tactical Window conditions now you don't have the spare slots for three useless Line Troopers.
     
    Errhile likes this.
  7. Natsymir

    Natsymir Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2017
    Messages:
    168
    Likes Received:
    161
    It's a good idea for Hafzas as well, once we get access to those guys again.
     
  8. QueensGambit

    QueensGambit SecUnit

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2019
    Messages:
    1,650
    Likes Received:
    2,302
    Couldn't hide him as a Mutt or Daylami screen, because he was in a 10-unit combat group.

    Could have hid him as a single Mutt, which is worth considering. In this case, it wouldn't have done anything since there was nobody who wanted to move anywhere near him.

    I agree that the Govad wasn't ideal. Maybe a Govad sniper so that the opponent thinks that they can't use smoke to advance. The problem is that then when he decides to go after the "sniper" with an HMG, he kills my Ayyar. I had the Ayyar prone behind cover, so I needed to hide him as something that would be hiding, but would have an impact on the game. The HMG was the best I could come up with since it would potentially stop my opponent from putting out ARO pieces that would be gunned down.

    Fake Ghulam Lt is also an option, but not likely to affect my opponent's decisions. ISS in Supplies isn't likely to try an Lt assassination run.
     
  9. Space Ghost

    Space Ghost Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    68
    Likes Received:
    106
    @QueensGambit : What I'm going for sometimes isn't so much that the Ayyar will mess with my opponents decisions as be ignored. Take the fake Ghulam LT. Not trying to tempt my opponent into an assassination run, but simply sucker him into putting a juicy target on a rooftop (cause I'm never gonna stand up my "LT" on turn one or two, and even if I did all he's got is a combi) that then gets Surprise Shot in the face with a Sniper Rifle. And in the game you referenced, how about a BSG Govad (I'm pretty sure they have that option) to dupe your opponent into a position where you could have Surprise Shot a PF up the Su Jian's tail. Again not trying to Monday morning quarterback, just explain how I try to leverage both Ayyar's Holo and Surprise Attack skills in my games and meta. Have fun!
     
  10. QueensGambit

    QueensGambit SecUnit

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2019
    Messages:
    1,650
    Likes Received:
    2,302
    Hmm, yeah maybe that's the best option. A Ghulam Lt is plausible and ignorable. Probably better than the Govad BSG which my opponent would probably notice was fishy. Also would make my actual Barid Lt less obvious, although his obviousness isn't a huge problem anyway with the Farzan CoC.

    If Barids were AVA 3, he could be a second Barid hacker to make my repeaters look even scarier while still looking like an Lt.
     
    RobertShepherd likes this.
  11. Cadwallon

    Cadwallon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2017
    Messages:
    66
    Likes Received:
    54
    Ghulam grenade launcher can be prone/without los and can fire grenades. Don't know if can serve to hide your ayyar. Speculative fire don't look good.
     
  12. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
    Infinity Rules Staff Warcor

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2017
    Messages:
    7,064
    Likes Received:
    14,416
    Targeted State is persistent and can be inflicted easily in ARO...
     
    Xeurian, Errhile and Cadwallon like this.
  13. Barrogh

    Barrogh Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2017
    Messages:
    2,061
    Likes Received:
    1,790
    It also doesn't negate -6 penalty on top of providing +3 anymore, correct? Plus LGLs don't have +3 range anymore, although they also have 16-24 range improved.
    Unless I'm mistaken, it's all a wash for Spec.Fire as a result.
     
    Legrasse likes this.
  14. RobertShepherd

    RobertShepherd Antipodean midwit

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2018
    Messages:
    1,961
    Likes Received:
    3,941
    I've gotten a couple opportunistic spec fire kills in Bahram already thanks to the NCO ghulam in a core link often just being able to thunk off a shot for free using the Lt order. Not against targeted enemies, though - just rolling well and hitting 8s. Targeted has been more meaningful so far for making reliable close assaults on enemies that hit my lines and survived. I've taken out one speculo already who got in after my Ayyar and hilled him, but got targeted. A core link ghulam doctor hitting B3 on BS23 cleaned her up quite nicely.
     
    Xagul82 likes this.
  15. grampyseer

    grampyseer User of the "ignore" button
    Warcor

    Joined:
    May 18, 2017
    Messages:
    352
    Likes Received:
    695
    I use the Ayyar in Vanilla quite a bit. I see a few broad ways that he works well.

    1. Tarpit screen, as @ijw described.
    2. Surprise panzerfaust ARO.
    3. Low threat model suddenly becomes high threat model.

    His viral pistols are deadly as all heck, and he can competently run a 1 man counter attack up to midfield, even capping an objective on the way.

    He’s also a solid way to break a midfield suppression fire, as you’ll inflict a -9 on the shooter.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  16. Solar

    Solar Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2017
    Messages:
    2,856
    Likes Received:
    4,982
    Realistically the Ayyar is great. Let's say you forget the wider tactical implications of the Holomask and just put down 3 Ayyar Shock MMRs. Well that's still a -6 Surprise Shot MMR from a HI! And if you use the Viral Pistols by getting close, you can really clean house on even tougher targets just by forcing them to take a LOT of saves. Plus the Ayyar is a specialist. But let's think of it this way... one of the tougher units to face in N4 is the Speculo killer. Well the Ayyar provides excellent defence against that. Which of these three Ghulams is my LT? Well actually none of them, but one of them is the real Quaid and can pop your Speculo with a single Viral pistol shot if they go for someone else.

    You can deploy them as three Daylami, shit that's worth taking three more Daylami without camo just so you can have six of them and be like, half of these are fake BUT YOU DON'T KNOW WHICH ONES. You could deploy them as a Mutts, with an actual Mutt. Hope that these aren't really Jammers... it's all pretty solid as a 1st turn defence and then the Ayyar can bomb up the board, push buttons, beat up lighter targets etc.
     
  17. Savnock

    Savnock Nerfherder

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2017
    Messages:
    944
    Likes Received:
    1,252
    Holo just isn't as well understood/appreciated in Infinity as camo. It's really useful for just what @Solar describes. Then it goes into being great for attack with Surprise Attack, automatically resetting without orders on both end of your turn -and- end of your opponent's now, and it can clear mines etc. It has enormous value if one can get one's head out of the camo game and use holo fully.
     
    Urobros likes this.
  18. QueensGambit

    QueensGambit SecUnit

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2019
    Messages:
    1,650
    Likes Received:
    2,302
    Last time we had the Ayyar Debate, @Solar you promised to post a battle report showcasing the Ayyar in practice. I haven't forgotten :-)

    I'm not going to dispute most of your examples. I have a certain amount of skepticism of some of them, but my jury is still out on the Ayyar and you could be right. That battle report might help show me that his benefits are enough to make him worth his points.

    I am going to disagree with you on a couple of items, though:

    The problem is, your opponent will know that none of them is your Lt. You have 17 troops on the table and three of them are basic Ghulams? That Speculo won't be fooled.

    You could build your list around trying to make the illusion believable. Say you put the Ayyar in group 2 with two Nadhirs so that your troop count comes up right. Not too appealing (for this reason I'm pretty disappointed the Ayyar lost Free Agent), but do-able. Or you put the Ayyar and Nadhirs in group 1 and eat the loss of two orders. Either way, your opponent is probably not going to be fooled, simply because it's so unlikely that anyone would bring three basic Ghulams in an N4 list, using up three of their fifteen precious slots just to hide their Lt, and then deploy all three of them in coherency.

    To make this actually work, you need an actual Ghulam Lt to hide amongst your fakes. At least you can get an extra command token out of it. That at least would be a viable strategy, although personally I don't see myself using up one of my slots on a Ghulam Lt.

    This, I can't agree with. Camo and infiltration are what make Daylami amazing. Without them, he's just HMG fodder. Your opponent knows half of them are fake, so he can safely move his HMG into view of several of them, then only shoot at the ones that shoot at him. That's if he needs to deal with them at all given that they're stuck in your DZ. This would be a waste of three good Daylamis.
     
    RobertShepherd likes this.
  19. Solar

    Solar Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2017
    Messages:
    2,856
    Likes Received:
    4,982
    I took the Ayyar to tournaments and he did well! But that was N3 and this is N4.

    Also I can't be arsed to write batreps haha. In N3 the Ayyar was often my MVP, I will say the one thing makes me a little less excited about him in N4 is that ultimate DAM 13 is not as good as it used to be.
     
  20. Fenrir

    Fenrir Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2018
    Messages:
    133
    Likes Received:
    72
    @Solar the ayyar don't work with the muttawia as you said, because your opponent will ask you how many impetuous/irregular do you have then the trick is over. Could work for the 3 ghulam deploy. Don't really understand the CB logic in ayyar profile, it's exaclty the same without free agent and cost more points than before, with the hacking improved...

    I tooked him as well to tournaments and did it well too, but just in a few close quarters misions or scenarios (N3)
     
    Urobros likes this.
  • About Us

    We are a company founded in 2001 in Cangas (Spain), and devoted to design and manufacture games and figures. Our main product, Infinity the Game, was born with the ambition to satisfy the most demanding audience, offering the best quality.

     

    Why are we here?

     

    Because we are, first and foremost, players.

  • Quick Navigation

    Open the Quick Navigation