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Stranger things of N4

Discussion in 'Haqqislam' started by Green, Sep 25, 2020.

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Is this mistake, joke or grim reality we cursed to live?

  1. mistake

    15 vote(s)
    53.6%
  2. joke

    1 vote(s)
    3.6%
  3. grim reality

    12 vote(s)
    42.9%
  1. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
    Infinity Rules Staff Warcor

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    HardDisk covered most of it, but here's some extra stuff.

    They didn't go down in points, but they gained MULTI Pistols and PARA CCWs, and 'i-Kohl' now works against all targets, not just ones with Wounds. An Odalisque can now semi-reliably IMM-A a TAG all by herself, and 3-4 of them in a Fireteam can do it on 80% or better odds. Then wallop it unopposed with either DA or AP Ammunition from the MULTI Pistols.

    They can even beat up Ninjas semi-reliably (about 50% to 25% if both use DA).

    No, the really cheap options don't exist, but the direct equivalent option did go down by 14pt (more than the Sphinx dropped) while gaining Baggage which can be used by anyone in ZoC and ECM: Hacker (-3), one of the only TAGs to get this. We also got an option with Heavy Rocket Launcher and Grenade Launcher as sidearms.

    Holoprojector now activates for free in the States Phase of both players' turns if they're outside LoF.
     
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  2. emperorsaistone

    emperorsaistone Well-Known Member

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    I agree on everything, but:
    Thats so minor and he still is far to expensive for what he brings to the table.
     
  3. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
    Infinity Rules Staff Warcor

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    Let’s just say that we’re going to have to agree to disagree on that, strongly.
     
  4. emperorsaistone

    emperorsaistone Well-Known Member

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    Care to explain it? I just cant see its value nowadays.
    Yes, when he appeared with HSN3 it was a novelty, that was a HI Specialist (especially good in Vanilla), with a decent gun, able to clear mines and other Holo shenanigans. But with every expansion he got more and more overshadowed and now I dont see anything that appeals to me.
     
  5. Papa Bey

    Papa Bey Clueless Wonder. Still.

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    So don't use it.
     
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  6. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead
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    I know it might be a case of grass being greener on the other side, but I was always a fan of the Ayyar. Badass mini aside, he's a decent gunfighter - more than decent, when factoring in Surprise Attack -6 (I'm seriously bamboozled why it's not available on more units) - that's extremely easy to hide from your opponent. When he first came oaut I thought that this is how I envisioned a Shas HI.
     
  7. QueensGambit

    QueensGambit SecUnit

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    I never tire of the Ayyar Debate! I've never been able to see the use of him, but lots of good players do, and I always want to hear more from them about what I'm missing. He might actually solve my recent problem of wanting to fit in an Asawira Spitfire but not having the SWC. Hmmm...

    How is he easy to hide from the opponent? I thought that on their turn, they would just move up to look at multiple holoechoes. If you don't reveal, they can split their burst and get free shots?
     
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  8. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
    Infinity Rules Staff Warcor

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    There are five Daylami with Panzerfausts watching different approaches to the Haqq DZ and/or some consoles. You spend Orders positioning to shoot one down.

    Oh. It’s just a Holoecho.

    You position to shoot down another.

    Oh. This is another Holoecho. The Ayyar is revealed, and it’s not in a position where you can get to it easily.

    You still need to clear the route to the console for your specialists, and there are still two Daylami Panzerfausts to clear out, but these ones are actually real.

    That’s slightly idealised in that the holoechos happen to be the ones that got shot first, but it gives you the overall idea.
     
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  9. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead
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    Alternatively you deploy him without active Holoprojector, but with active Holomask, masquerading as something inconspicuous and non-threatening. My personal fav was using N3 MO, when I disguised a Holy Sepulchre Spitfire CoC as a Machinist, and went to town after opponent used his whole turn to kill Joan Lt which I "accidentally" overextended with. Ayyar is less killy, but can use the same tactic - exploit an opening left because opponent was certain you can't threaten him with what he saw.
     
    ijw likes this.
  10. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
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    That too. When I was using Qapu Khalqi a lot, my regular opponents got to the point where they just assumed that any model on the table might be a Hafza with HRL, unless they’d actively seen it shoot or press a button etc.

    That level of uncertainty is powerful in its own right.
     
  11. QueensGambit

    QueensGambit SecUnit

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    Oh gotcha, I misunderstood and thought you meant hide him from attack during the game after moving it up. That makes more sense.

    I'm thinking a Govad HMG would be a good fake - it's plausible, in the same point range, and could induce bad decisions about where they put their snipers. I think I'll give it a whirl.

    I don't love the Daylami trick, though. I'd have to deliberately deploy my Daylamis out of camo. So maybe my opponent would waste some orders fighting holoechoes, but they'd also gain orders not spent Discovering actual Daylamis.
     
  12. chromedog

    chromedog Less than significant minion

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    She made some bad life-choices and went into some relationships she, in hindsight, shouldn't have. She's got issues AS WELL AS baggage.
     
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  13. Space Ghost

    Space Ghost Well-Known Member

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    While the new way Holoechoes regenerate is a neat buff to the Ayyar and others, I think the new 15 troop limit is going to make the Holomask plus Holoecho trick harder to pull off. Back in N3 if I turned my Ayyar into three Daylami, I'd just hand my opponent a Courtesy List with 17 models; now I have to reserve two of my 15 precious slots for decoy entries on my Courtesy List. That might work out every now and again, but I think more often than not you're gonna see Ayyars deploy with Mask or Echoes up, and not both.
     
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  14. Papa Bey

    Papa Bey Clueless Wonder. Still.

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    Or just let your opponent know waste time and orders figuring it out?
     
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  15. QueensGambit

    QueensGambit SecUnit

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    If I had 17 models on the table, I would point out to my opponent that I had 17 models on the table.

    I know there are some players who would hope their opponent didn't notice, but to me it's just basic sportsmanship.
     
  16. Space Ghost

    Space Ghost Well-Known Member

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    Will the new Army builder let me generate a Courtesy List with more than 15 troops? If it does I suppose that would still have some merit, but I think that would also qualify as one of the "Stranger Things" of N4 - the arbitrary 15 troop limit forcing me to disclose to my opponent that I have a high tech Ayyar "hiding" in my list somewhere.
     
  17. QueensGambit

    QueensGambit SecUnit

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    Otoh it makes it easier to use the Ayyar to hide a Ragik or Nadhir.
     
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  18. RobertShepherd

    RobertShepherd Antipodean midwit

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    If I ever see a Panzerfaust Daylami deployed in the DZ, without camo, and it isn't a result of a model with a holoprojector, I will eat a small decorative hat.
     
  19. Agorapocalypse

    Agorapocalypse Namurr and Nahab are girlfriends

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    Oof, well if you ever see me playing you should steer clear. For your health and the health of that hat.
     
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  20. Barrogh

    Barrogh Well-Known Member

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    Enough people used to just put 7/0.5 (non-II) Daylamis as their first line of speedbumps, followed by second line of Mutts.
    That could actually eat a lot of orders on opponent's first turn and slow down losing orders for you considerably whereas II Daylami would often end up somewhere they can't even die in a useful manner.
    But now with TW doing that means doing opponent's work of gutting your order base for them, so...
     
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